[B-Greek] Question about Luke 19:8

Dr. Don Wilkins drdwilkins at verizon.net
Wed Jan 23 15:43:12 EST 2008


I'm not sure about the scope of George's explanation, so this is not  
so much an objection to that as it is a comment about common ideas  
regarding the condition that I have often observed in commentaries  
and certain grammars. A first-class condition is often defined as  
indicating the truth of the protasis because there are many passages  
in which the writer or speaker poses a rhetorical condition to his  
audience, using a protasis with which they have to agree due to their  
own circumstances (e.g. 1 Thess. 4:14). The purpose is to compel them  
to acknowledge the truth of the apodosis. But the condition itself  
does not imply the truth of the protasis. There are quite a few first- 
class conditions in the NT that are clearly untrue. Rom. 4:14 is a  
good example if you accept the implied indicative in the protasis.  
Other good examples have two first-class conditions or the  
equivalent, where the writer presents two options, only one of which  
can be true (e.g. Rom. 8:13; James 2:8-9). If "if" is replaced by  
"since", as is often advocated, the result is a contradiction. Now  
and then you see a general truth put in first-class form, and again,  
"since" makes no sense (e.g. 1 Tim 3:1; 5:8).

I think this misconception about the so-called first-class condition  
was the result of a combination of the idea that the indicative is  
the mood of reality, and the impression that "if" = "since" due to  
the many rhetorical first-class conditions in the NT. It is true that  
the indicative is used to describe reality, but this is always from  
the speaker's viewpoint, and there is no guarantee of truth. In fact,  
most lies are told in the indicative, and unreal (second-class  
conditions) also use the indicative. As for "if" = "since", that is  
true as a matter of context and interpretation for rhetorical first- 
class conditions, but not as a matter of grammar. In fact, "if" is  
more powerful than "since" in rhetoricals. Rather than offering his  
own opinion of his reader's condition by saying "since," the writer  
instead forces the reader to examine himself by deciding whether the  
protasis applies to him (or if he is worthy of it). If the reader  
agrees, then he is obligated either to accept the apodosis as true or  
to challenge the validity of the condition.

I think the true significance of first-class conditions is that they  
refer to particular situations as opposed to general (as in Smyth),  
though as I noted above they can sometimes be used as de facto  
general statements.

Don Wilkins

On Jan 23, 2008, at 2:46 AM, George F Somsel wrote:

> I am confused by your reference to a "first class trip."  It is, as  
> has been indicated, a first class condition.  A first class  
> condition indicates that the condition is accepted as being true  
> then sets forth the result.
>
> george
> gfsomsel
> … search for truth, hear truth,
> learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
> defend the truth till death.
>
>  - Jan Hus
> _________
>



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