[B-Greek] Matthew 16:18 - two questions
Harold Holmyard
hholmyard3 at earthlink.net
Sun Jul 20 20:26:20 EDT 2008
Elizabeth,
> As I am sure you know, hAiDHS in the LXX typically translates Sheol and the NT use is a mixed bag, see TDNT.
HH: I don't have TDNT here, but I know that. Yet there is enough
commonality that we should feel comfortable looking for basic
comparisons or correspondences, with certain things being changed, of
course. The NT feels comfortable referring to Tartarus as a prison for
especially evil angels (2 Pet 2:4, a verb form), and this seems
compatible with the Greek view of it, reported here by Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tartarus
In classic Greek mythology, below Heaven, Earth, and Pontus is Tartarus,
or Tartaros (Greek Τάρταρος, deep place). It is either a deep, gloomy
place, a pit, or an abyss used as a dungeon of torment and suffering
that resides within Hades (the entire underworld) with Tartarus being
the hellish component. In the Gorgias, Plato (c. 400 BC) wrote that
souls were judged after death and those who received punishment were
sent to Tartarus. As a place of punishment, it can be considered a hell.
HH: Notice the last statement in this paragraph, as follows:
The classic Hades, on the other hand, is more similar to Old Testament
Sheol.
HH: So there can be places of punishment within Hades, but the article
says that the classic Greek ideas of Hades is comparable to biblical
Sheol, meaning the rest of Hades apart from Tartarus, I guess. Anyway,
the point I was making is that the gates of Hades inducted people into a
realm of the dead that was traditionally seen as barring virtually any
escape. It seems natural that such a basic concept about Hades would be
known in Israel, which used the Greek language and knew Greek culture.
Jesus could easily allude to this common concept in Matt 16:18,
regardless of OT teaching about a resurrection. For Hades would be
inescapable until then, it seemed, and Jesus is the resurrection (John
11:25).
> The expression PULAI hADOU in Mat. 16:18 is used with a similar meaning (according to France Matt. 2007) in the following passages. Note that JOB 38:17 is somewhat of a crux.
>
HH: But these passages all resemble what I saw in the Iliad and the
Odyssey. Some are quite similar. Job 38:17 OG seems to mean:
Are the gate of death opened to you in fear? Do the gatekeepers of Hades
cower when seeing you?
Job 38:17 ἀνοίγονται δέ σοι φόβῳ πύλαι
θανάτου πυλωροὶ δὲ ᾅδου ἰδόντες σε
ἔπτηξαν
JOB 38:17 ANOIGONTAI DE SOI FOBWi PULAI QANATOU PULWROI DE hAiDOU
IDONTES SE EPTHXAN
HH: Please tell me why this passage is a crux, though? I see it say that
God's authority was recognized even in Hades, and that in some sense
the gates could be opened for Him.
Yours,
Harold Holmyard
>
> 3Mac. 5:51 ἀνεβόησαν φωνῇ μεγάλῃ σφόδρα
> τὸν τῆς ἁπάσης δυνάμεως δυνάστην
> ἱκετεύοντες οἰκτῖραι μετὰ
> ἐπιφανείας αὐτοὺς ἤδη πρὸς πύλαις
> ᾅδου καθεστῶτας
>
> Ode. 11:10 ἐγὼ εἶπα ἐν τῷ ὕψει τῶν
> ἡμερῶν μου πορεύσομαι ἐν πύλαις
> ᾅδου καταλείψω τὰ ἔτη τὰ ἐπίλοιπα
>
> Job 38:17 ἀνοίγονται δέ σοι φόβῳ πύλαι
> θανάτου πυλωροὶ δὲ ᾅδου ἰδόντες σε
> ἔπτηξαν
>
> Wis. 16:13 σὺ γὰρ ζωῆς καὶ θανάτου
> ἐξουσίαν ἔχεις καὶ κατάγεις εἰς
> πύλας ᾅδου καὶ ἀνάγεις
>
> Sol. 16:2 παρ᾿ ὀλίγον ἐξεχύθη ἡ ψυχή
> μου εἰς θάνατον σύνεγγυς πυλῶν ᾅδου
> μετὰ ἁμαρτωλοῦ
>
> Is. 38:10 ἐγὼ εἶπα ἐν τῷ ὕψει τῶν
> ἡμερῶν μου ἐν πύλαις ᾅδου καταλείψω
> τὰ ἔτη τὰ ἐπίλοιπα
>
> 3MAC. 5:51 ANEBOHSAN FWNHi MEGALHi SFODRA TON THS hAPASHS DUNAMEWS
> DUNASTHN hIKETEUONTES OIKTIRAI META EPIFANEIAS AUTOUS HDH PROS PULAIS
> hAiDOU KAQESTWTAS
>
> ODE. 11:10 EGW EIPA EN TWi hUYEI TWN hHMERWN MOU POREUSOMAI EN PULAIS
> hAiDOU KATALEIYW TA ETH TA EPILOIPA
>
> JOB 38:17 ANOIGONTAI DE SOI FOBWi PULAI QANATOU PULWROI DE hAiDOU
> IDONTES SE EPTHXAN
>
> WIS. 16:13 SU GAR ZWHS KAI QANATOU EXOUSIAN ECEIS KAI KATAGEIS EIS
> PULAS hAiDOU KAI ANAGEIS
>
> SOL. 16:2 PAR OLIGON EXECUQH hH YUCH MOU EIS QANATON SUNEGGUS PULWN
> hAiDOU META hAMARTWLOU
>
> IS. 38:10 EGW EIPA EN TWi hUYEI TWN hHMERWN MOU EN PULAIS hAiDOU
> KATALEIYW TA ETH TA EPILOIPA
>
> Elizabeth Kline
>
>
>
>
> ---
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