[B-Greek] Matthew 16:18 - two questions

Harold Holmyard hholmyard3 at earthlink.net
Mon Jul 21 22:34:54 EDT 2008


Hi, Elizabeth,
>   
> Well the article must be half a century old, but  J. Jeremias (TDNT  VI, 924-928 C. "The Gates of Hades" Mat.16:18) argues that PULAI hADOU  Mat.16:18 should NOT be understood as simply a figurative reference to  the power of death. Jeremias adopts an eschatological conflict  framework, which should be familiar and need no explanation. He brings  a lot of evidence, not all of it very convincing, for example his citation from Sir 51:9b is taken from the 12th century fragments found  in the Cairo Geniza and translated "... and from the gates of the world of the dead (msh'ri sheol) ". The hebrew as translated in his  
> article doesn't support his 'eschatological conflict framework' and  the greek text which is much older (the uncials have some variation in  the prepositions noted with brackets)
>
> SIR. 51:9 KAI ANUYWSA APO [EPI?] GHS hIKETEIAN MOU KAI hUPER [APO?]  
> QANATOU hRUSEWS EDEHQHN
>
> Given that we don't have a very clear picture of the textual history of this citation, it is still not evidence that supports an  eschatological conflict framework. SIR. 51:9b hUPER [APO?] QANATOU  hRUSEWS EDEHQHN, if it translates the Hebrew found at the Cairo Geniza seems to support R.T.France see my original post below:
>   

HH: Thank you. The victory over death comes at the end according to 
Daniel,  Revelation, 1 Corinthians 15, Isaiah 25-26 and other passages. 
The two ideas can both be implied in Matt 16:18 in a broad biblical context.
>
> PULAI hADOU can be understood as the power of death. The figurative reference is certainly not to 'Hell' but to Hades which was the region of the dead. I would agree with France (Matt. 2007) and others that PULAI hADOU is not used here to represent an aggressive attacker of THS EKKLHSIAS, as if Hades were spewing out demonic forces to attack HN EKKLHSIAN. Rather, the idea is that the power of death, which appears to be invincible will fail and the EKKLHSIA will prevail.
>
> an aside: SIR. 51:9b hUPER [APO?] QANATOU hRUSEWS EDEHQHN
>
> What do you make of hRUSEWS here? Perhaps a river? Rivers play a  
> significant role in the geography of Hades.
>   

HH: I am using Accordance, and when I put my cursor on the word hRUSEWS, 
it says that the word means "flow." But my first thought was that it 
seemed to be a noun derivative from hROUMAI, so I checked LSJ, which has 
the entry:

hRUSIS, EWS, hH deliverance, QANATOU from death Epigr. Gr. 200 (Cos), 
LXX Si 51:9.

There is a homograph that means "flow," but LSJ does not think it suits 
Sir 51:9.

Yours,
Harold Holmyard
>
> Elizabeth Kline
>
>
>
>
> ---
> B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
> B-Greek mailing list
> B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
>
>   




More information about the B-Greek mailing list