[B-Greek] TETARAKTAI in JOHN 12:27

Webb Mealy webb at selftest.net
Tue Mar 4 11:06:38 EST 2008


I usually think, when I see the perfect, that something in particular has
given rise to the current ongoing status. In the current context John makes
it clear that Jesus is acutely aware of the fact that the end of his life is
impending.

Do you think that the perfect could be used when the state it expresses has
arisen more or less spontaneously, without a known cause? For example, could
someone say, "I don't know why, but I'm feeling deeply upset (hH YUCH MOU
TETARAKTAI) right now"? Or does the perfect drag in the sense of what caused
the state? I'm aware of the middle sense, which doesn't have an outside
agent. It's what I was taught about the perfect that has me hung up.

Webb Mealy

-----Original Message-----
From: b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Carl Conrad
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 4:41 AM
To: Elizabeth Kline
Cc: greek B-Greek
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] TETARAKTAI in JOHN 12:27

I think, on further thought, that TETARAKTAI in Jn 12:27 is best  
understood as a stative: "My mind is in turmoil."
On Mar 3, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Carl Conrad wrote:

>
> On Mar 3, 2008, at 4:56 PM, Elizabeth Kline wrote:
>
>> JOHN 12:27 NUN hH YUCH MOU TETARAKTAI ...
>>
>> Here we have a middle/pass perfect with hH YUCH as subject. This
>> clause has low transitivity. hH YUCH is not an agent or a patient.
>> The verb TETARAKTAI describes a state without any suggestion (within
>> this clause) of how hH YUCH came to be in this state, i.e. no cause
>> or agent is encoded. However, a cause can be supplied without
>> difficulty from the local discourse.
>>
>> Two questions:
>>
>> In traditional grammar TETARAKTAI would be described as a passive.
>> The passive has been understood as a means of suppressing the notion
>> of agency but I am not sure how relevant this is to states.
>>
>> I am having some difficulty fitting this into the "middle marked for
>> subject affectedness" scheme of things.
>
> On my view, the verb is essentially a middle verb (we've already noted
> that the middle-passive forms are much more frequent than actives in
> both GNT and) LXX); the active is a causative form of TARASSOMAI.
> TETARAKTAI is simply the perfect tense of TARASSOMAI in the sense
> "enter into turmoil." To this I would add, what others might not
> concede, that I believe that there's little difference in standard
> Koine usage between TETARAKTAI and ETARACQH (i.e. that both bear the
> sense "has come into turmoil." Moreover, even if one wants to speak of
> a cause, the cause is surely within the psyche. In terms of Allan's
> and Kemmer's categories, this is a "mental process middle" --  "an
> animate subject that experiences a mental affectedness" -- not far
> removed from a "spontaneous process middle" which better characterizes
> an inanimate subject.
>
>
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
>
>
>
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Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)



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