[B-Greek] EGW EIMI hO WN (LXX of Exodus 3:14)

Carlton Winbery winberycl at earthlink.net
Sat Mar 29 21:34:38 EDT 2008


>On Mar 27, 2008, at 7:55 PM, Eric S. Weiss wrote:
>
>>
>>>  No, it really isn't totally accurate.  The Hebrew has the
>>>  imperfect (prefix form) of the existential verb twice and
>>>  would more accurately be translated "I will be who / what
>>>  I will be."  I think I'll leave the Greek to your own
>>>  efforts. It would almost seem that the LXX was translated
>>>  under some Platonic influence.
>>>
>>>  george
>>>  gfsomsel
>>
>>  Richard Elliott Friedman chooses "I am who I am" and Robert
>>  Alter chooses "I will be who I will be." Both discuss the
>>  other one's choice, and Alter also discusses using "what"
>>  instead of "who." Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan (The Living Torah)
>>  goes with "I will be who I will be," and also refers to
>>  Rambam's Moreh Nevukhim 1:63 (1200 A.D.) when he says that
>>  the name "denotes that God has absolute existence," and
>>  refers the reader to the Septuagint; and that He is
>>  outside the realm of time (Rabbi Ovadia ben Yaakov Sforna,
>>  1567 A.D.).
>>
>>  Thus, it appears that the Hebrew imperfect need not be
>>  translated with the future, according to some
>>  Jewish/Hebrew scholars, and the concept of hO WN may not
>>  be Platonic (or maybe Rambam was a Platonist?).
>>
>>  I am not asking for theological or philosophic arguments
>>  (which would violate B-Greek rules), but if you have some
>>  Hellenic texts that show how hO WN might have been used by
>>  Platonists (or other Greek philosophers) with reference to
>>  the Deity, and/or that show The Seventy's understanding of
>>  the Hebrew and/or Jewish tradition to be properly expressed
>>  by translating the Hebrew as hO WN, it would help address
>>  my question.
>
>For my part, I don't see how this question is anything but theological 
>and philosophical. You are citing English versions of the Hebrew text 
>of Exodus 3:14 and asking how they may illuminate what the LXX 
>translators meant by using the participial hO WN for the Hebrew 'asher 
>ehyeh." I don't think that your question can be dealt with in purely 
>linguistic terms. Even if I point to Parmenides' discussion of the 
>verb EIMI with its insistence that this verb be understood solely in 
>the existential sense, not in the usage as copula, how will that help? 
>Or to Plato's discussion, in the dialogue, SOFISTHS, of whether TO ON 
>(and Plato there doesn't use hO WN but TO ON -- usually conveyed as 
>"Being") can be devoid of life, how would that help in terms of 
>language usage itself?
>
>I might suggest that you read a classic little work of Thorleif Boman 
>entitled, _Hebrew Thought Compared with Greek" -- it was originally 
>published back in the 50's  of the last century and I was surprised 
>just now to find that it is still in print and in a paperback edition 
>(Amazon: http://tinyurl.com/3dlvxr). It was back in the 50's while I 
>was beginning graduate work that I read it. It is an interesting read 
>(as I recall) but it has been both highly praised and damned and 
>pronounced "dated." It has a chapter comparing the Hebrew verb "hayah" 
>with the Greek verb EIMI.
>
>For my part, I haven't ever seen a discussion of the question here 
>raised that did anything more than a superficial probe of how the 
>Greek translation expresses the Hebrew original of the MT. I tend to 
>doubt whether the question can be resolved by any approach that could 
>be called in any way "scientific."
>
>
>Carl W. Conrad
>Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
>
Carl, I wrote about a ten page review of Boman's book in 1968 for a 
doctoral seminar. The review is stuck in a box of files somewhere. As 
I recall he argued that Hebrew had no verb "to be." HAYAH was a verb 
of action according to him. You are right that people either swore by 
him or at him. No one with whom I discussed the questions he raised 
was neutral. It was a lot like a chapter in a book by edited by O. 
Cullmann, "The Hebrew Concept of Resurrection and the Greek Concept 
of Immortality of the Soul."

Carlton

-- 
Carlton L. Winbery
Retired Professor of Religion
Louisiana College
318-448-6103
winberycl at earthlink.net



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