[B-Greek] hO WN KAI hHN KAI hO ERXOMENOS Rev. 1:4 and Exod 3:14

Bryant J. Williams III bjwvmw at com-pair.net
Mon Mar 31 21:46:12 EDT 2008


Dear Albert, Ken, et al,

I changed the subject header to reflect the new verse being cited along with
Exod 3:14 (easier to locate in the archives:))))

It appears that in some respect that what is happening is the conversion of the
Divine Name from Hebrew to Greek (or any other language, i.e. English) leaves
something to be desired. Nothing really incorporates all that it means and says.

Like the allusion to Exodus 3:14 by the apostle John in Rev. 1:4 seems to be a
more explanatory/exegetical rendering. It is not like EGW EIMI hO WN, but John
seems to be explaining the Hebrew so that it is understood better for the
readers of the Seven Churches in chapters 2 & 3 (1:4).

There is also an allusion to Isaiah 41:4 in the last part of the sentence, EGW
QEOS PRWTOS, KAI EIS TA EPERXOMENA EGW EIMI. The EGW = 'ani and the EGW EIMI =
'ani-hu'. Isaiah frequently uses EGW and EGW EIMI for 'ani, hu', and 'ani-hu' in
chapters 40-66.

Rev. Bryant J. Williams III

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Albert Pietersma" <albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca>
To: "Kevin P.Edgecomb" <kevin at bombaxo.com>
Cc: "'b-greek'" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 9:13 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] EGW EIMI hO WN (LXX of Exodus 3:14)


> Well, I wouldn't consider Albert Pietersma to be an expert witness on
> this question. As Carl has already noted, the issue here is more
> theological/philosophical than it is linguistic.
> While it is not impossible that the LXX had a Vorlage different from
> MT, I see no good reason to think so.
> Instead, a number of facts suggest that the translator had the same
> text (as MT) in Ex 3:14, but that he interpreted/exegeted his source
> text:
> 1. the expected reading, ESOMAI OS ESOMAI, would have been quite
> grammatical.
> 2.)HYH )SR )HYH produces two unique Hebrew-Greek equivalences: (a))
> HYH = EGW EIMI and (b) )HYH = WN
> 3. the third occurrence of )HYH in 3:14 is brought into line.
> Therefore, what we have, it would seem, is a deliberate move away
> from the source text, i.e., a piece of exegesis.
> Why he exegeted the way he did is not certain, but a reasonable guess
> is that he intended to personify the Greek philosophical phrase TO ON
> ("being")
> Al
>
>
>
> On Mar 28, 2008, at 6:01 PM, Kevin P. Edgecomb wrote:
> > George Somsel wrote:
> >>> No, it really isn't totally accurate.  The Hebrew has the imperfect
> >>> (prefix form) of the existential verb twice and would more
> >>> accurately
> >>> be translated "I will be who / what I will be."  I think I'll leave
> >>> the Greek to your own efforts. It would almost seem that the LXX was
> >>> translated under some Platonic influence.
> >
> > I write:
> > The Hebrew imperfect form is not restrictively a future tense, but a
> > present/future aspect.
> >
> > It seems reasonable that the LXX reflects a different underlying text
> > (perhaps Albert Pietersma can say more about this) which would've
> > included
> > the Tetragrammaton in the hO WN position, the Hebrew being perhaps
> > simply:
> > )HYH YHWH, "I am YHWH" which was simply literally translated EGW
> > EIMI hO WN.
> > hO WN is certainly a passable translation of YHWH, "He Is", and is
> > likewise
> > understood thus in patristic texts and iconography.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Kevin P. Edgecomb
> > Berkeley, California
> >
> >
> > ---
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>
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