[B-Greek] Rom 8:10 TO DE PNEUMA ZWH
Tom Moore
tom at katabiblon.com
Tue Oct 21 01:04:16 EDT 2008
I think what was meant is that there are no occurrences of the adjective ζωός -ή -όν (alive) in the GNT, whereas the list provided are all occurrences of the noun ζῷον, -ου, τό (animal/creature).
I note that consistent with the comment about Homer that the LSJ entry itself has limited citations for ZWOS.
So digging further for "alive" in both the GNT and LXX, it appears that in Koine "alive" is handled by the participle "living" (ZAW). Examples below.
Earlier I proffered TO PNEUMA ZWON as the correct way to say "the spirit is alive"; I think now instead that the way for Paul to have said it, had that been what he intended, is TO PNEUMA ZWN.
Modern Greek appears to have the adjective ZWNTANOS to mean "alive", presumably a derivation of the participle of zaw.
LXX and GNT Examples:
Exodus 22:3 ἐὰν δὲ καταλημφθῇ καὶ εὑρεθῇ ἐν τῇ χειρὶ αὐτοῦ τὸ κλέμμα ἀπό τε ὄνου ἕως προβάτου ζῶντα διπλᾶ αὐτὰ ἀποτείσει
EAN DE KATALHMFQHi KAI hEUREQHi EN THi CEIRI AUTOU TO KLEMMA APO TE ONOU hEWS PROBATOU ZWNTA DIPLA AUTA APOTEISAEI
If the stolen property is found in his hand alive [living], whether it is ox, donkey, or sheep, he shall pay double.
3Kgs/1Kgs 21:18 καὶ εἶπεν αὐτοῖς εἰ εἰς εἰρήνην οὗτοι ἐκπορεύονται συλλάβετε αὐτοὺς ζῶντας καὶ εἰ εἰς πόλεμον ζῶντας συλλάβετε αὐτούς
KAI EIPEN AUTOIS EI EIS EIRHNHN OUTOI EKPOREUONTAI SULLABETE AUTOUS ZWNTAS KAI EI EIS POLEMON ZWNTAS SULLABETE AUTOUS
He said, “If they have come out for peace, take them alive [living]; or if they have come out for war, take them alive [living].”
Acts 9:41 Δοὺς δὲ αὐτῇ χεῖρα, ἀνέστησεν αὐτήν· φωνήσας δὲ τοὺς ἁγίους καὶ τὰς χήρας, παρέστησεν αὐτὴν ζῶσαν.
DOUS DE AUTHi CEIRA, ANESTHSEN AUTHN FWNHSAS DE TOUS hAGIOUS KAI TAS CHRAS PARESTHSEN AUTHN ZWSAN
He gave her his hand, and raised her up. Calling the saints and widows, he presented her alive [living].
Acts 20:12 Ἤγαγον δὲ τὸν παῖδα ζῶντα, καὶ παρεκλήθησαν οὐ μετρίως.
HGAGON DE TON PAIDA ZWNTA KAI PAREKLHQHSAN OU METRIWS
They brought the boy in alive [living], and were greatly comforted.
Romans 6:11 Οὕτως καὶ ὑμεῖς λογίζεσθε ἑαυτοὺς [εἶναι] νεκροὺς μὲν τῇ ἁμαρτίᾳ, ζῶντας δὲ τῷ θεῷ ἐν χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ.
hOUTWS KAI hUMEIS LOGIZESQE hEAUTOUS EINAI NEKROUS MEN THi hAMARTIAi ZWNTAS DE TWi QEWi EN CRISTWi IHSOU
Thus consider yourselves also to be dead to sin, but alive [living] to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Tom Moore
> -------Original Message-------
> From: Barry <nebarry at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Rom 8:10 TO DE PNEUMA ZWH
> Sent: Oct 20 '08 20:37
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nikolaos Adamou" <nikolaos.adamou at hotmail.com>
> To: "Barry" <nebarry at verizon.net>; <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 12:19 PM
> Subject: RE: [B-Greek] Rom 8:10 TO DE PNEUMA ZWH
>
>
> >
> > 1. To my knowledge, ζωόν appears in Homer BUT not in NT.
>
> &` Heb 13:11
> &` 2Peter 2:12
> &` Jude 1:10
> &` Rev 4:6
> &` Rev 4:7
> &` Rev 4:7
> &` Rev 4:7
> &` Rev 4:7
> &` Rev 4:8
> &` Rev 4:9
> &` Rev 5:6
> &` Rev 5:8
> &` Rev 5:11
> &` Rev 5:14
> &` Rev 6:1
> &` Rev 6:3
> &` Rev 6:5
> &` Rev 6:6
> &` Rev 6:7
> &` Rev 7:11
> &` Rev 14:3
> &` Rev 15:7
> &` Rev 19:4
> &` 23 matches in AGNT
>
> > If there is in use during NT Greek, I have not seen it, and I would
> > appreciate if you can help me find out more about it.
>
> See above.
>
> >
> >
> > 2. I never implied that δικαιοσύνη modifies ζωή. The use of διὰ
> > (because) does not modify but indicates purpose / reason.
>
> Actually, according to this, you did imply it:
>
> >>It is correct
> and there is an agreement
> ζωὴ διὰ δικαιοσύνην
>
> but the spirit is life because of righteousness<<
>
> However, I think your formatting was simply a bit unclear, or maybe it's
> just the cobwebs in my own brain... :)
>
> >
> >
> > The initial question was if the translation as "alive" and not "life" is
> > appropriate; it is NOT.
>
> Agreed!
>
> > The secondary question was if the meaning of πνεῦμα refers to the Holy
> > Spirit, and in this instance, it is NOT.<<
>
> That, as they say, is a matter of interpretation, and not grammar!
>
> N.E. Barry Hofstetter
>
> Fecisti nos ad te et inquietum est cor nostrum, donec requiescat in te...
> -- Augustine, Confessions 1:1
>
> http://mysite.verizon.net/nebarry/
> http://my.opera.com/BarryHofstetter/blog/
>
>
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