[B-Greek] John 12:27 TI EIPW
Carl Conrad
cwconrad2 at mac.com
Wed Oct 22 06:33:09 EDT 2008
Vasile, if you want to create this subcategory, I suggest that you
propose it to Dan Wallace, who likes to clutter up the grammar with
subcategories in terms of how one translates particular instances of a
construction into English. For my part, I can't see the use of such
subcategories; as I see it, the subjunctive construction here says
nothing more or less than, "What am I to say?" Then PATER SWSON ME EK
THS hWRAS TAUTHS? simply suggests one alternative; it's not part of
the subjunctive construction.
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
On Oct 21, 2008, at 10:42 PM, Vasile Stancu wrote:
> I propose that some nuance be added to the term "deliberative
> subjunctive".
> If my understanding is correct, simply "deliberative" would imply
> something
> like, "What do I say: this or that?" or "How to respond: thus or the
> other
> way round?", whereas in this case, the very alternative which is
> worded is
> already denied before any judgement. It is like when a mother is
> rebuking
> her child after having discovered that he had caught a cat and
> attached old
> cans to its tail and then released it so as to watch the cat running
> away
> scared by the noise, and says, "Now, shall I do to you the same as
> you did
> to the poor cat?" Of course the mother has no intention at all of
> doing
> that. The subjunctive used here is very much like the one in
> question, I
> believe. Let me propose something: "deliberative subjunctive by
> elimination".
>
> Vasile STANCU
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
> [mailto:b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Carl Conrad
> Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 8:58 PM
> To: javajedi2 at yahoo.com
> Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] John 12:27 TI EIPW
>
>
> On Oct 20, 2008, at 1:58 AM, Kenneth Litwak wrote:
>
>> I'm looking at the question, TI EIPW, PATER SWSON ME EK THS (WRAS
>> TAUTHS? As a subjunctive I can think of several ways that one could
>> translate this: what can I say? What should I say? What shall I
>> say? I read one book that said this has to mean "What can I say/"
>> but I don't think the Greek subjunctive is that narrow. What do
>> y'all ((UMEIS) think?
>
> Ken, any one of your suggested versions will do; you could even use
> "What do I say?" or "How to response?" The construction is the so-
> called "deliberative" subjunctive in an independent clause. The
> meaning is not in question; English it however you think best
> expresses the sense of hesitancy or momentary uncertainty.
>
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
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