[B-Greek] John 12:27 TI EIPW
Carl Conrad
cwconrad2 at mac.com
Wed Oct 22 07:35:02 EDT 2008
On Oct 21, 2008, at 10:42 PM, Vasile Stancu wrote:
> I propose that some nuance be added to the term "deliberative
> subjunctive".
> If my understanding is correct, simply "deliberative" would imply
> something
> like, "What do I say: this or that?" or "How to respond: thus or the
> other
> way round?", whereas in this case, the very alternative which is
> worded is
> already denied before any judgement. It is like when a mother is
> rebuking
> her child after having discovered that he had caught a cat and
> attached old
> cans to its tail and then released it so as to watch the cat running
> away
> scared by the noise, and says, "Now, shall I do to you the same as
> you did
> to the poor cat?" Of course the mother has no intention at all of
> doing
> that. The subjunctive used here is very much like the one in
> question, I
> believe. Let me propose something: "deliberative subjunctive by
> elimination".
(I hope this doesn't turn out to be a duplicate, but a response I sent
a while ago seems to have vanished.)
Dan Wallace might want to learn of this proposal and add it to his
subcategories of Biblical Greek constructions created to match
particular instances of each construction in terms of how one
Englishes those instances. I think such a subcategory is superfluous.
TI EIPW says nothing more or less than "What am I supposed to say?"
PATER SWSON ME EK THS hWRAS TAUTHS is simply a hypothetical answer to
the question, not part of the construction. Does the category
"Deliberative Subjunctive" really call for nuanced distinctions
between usages?
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
> [mailto:b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Carl Conrad
> Sent: Monday, October 20, 2008 8:58 PM
> To: javajedi2 at yahoo.com
> Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] John 12:27 TI EIPW
>
>
> On Oct 20, 2008, at 1:58 AM, Kenneth Litwak wrote:
>
>> I'm looking at the question, TI EIPW, PATER SWSON ME EK THS (WRAS
>> TAUTHS? As a subjunctive I can think of several ways that one could
>> translate this: what can I say? What should I say? What shall I
>> say? I read one book that said this has to mean "What can I say/"
>> but I don't think the Greek subjunctive is that narrow. What do
>> y'all ((UMEIS) think?
>
> Ken, any one of your suggested versions will do; you could even use
> "What do I say?" or "How to response?" The construction is the so-
> called "deliberative" subjunctive in an independent clause. The
> meaning is not in question; English it however you think best
> expresses the sense of hesitancy or momentary uncertainty.
>
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
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