[B-Greek] Further Study

Randall Buth randallbuth at gmail.com
Tue Apr 7 16:47:29 EDT 2009


On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 10:54 PM, Daniel, Robert S <rob.daniel at hp.com> wrote:

> Maybe you don't need native speakers, but the natural way we learn our
> native language does involve native speakers. If we don't have the
> opportunity of being immersed in an environment of native speech, we have to
> do something artificial that is an effective substitute for the natural
> language-learning environment. I don't think grammar and translation is it.
>

You are correct, grammar translation can't do this. But historically, second
language users have been able to create learning environments. Take rabbinic
yeshivot over a millenium.


>
> I think that part of the difficulty is that children, before they begin to
> speak full-blown properly formed sentences, are exposed to a large volume of
> spoken language. They acquire passive language skills -- listening -- before
> they acquire the active skills of speaking, and before reading and writing.
> How can a learner expose himself to such a volume of spoken Koine Greek that
> he can acquire a solid foundation of passive skills upon which to build the
> active skills?


that is exactly what we do at BLC. If only the powers that be in Christian
higher education would fund the kind of environment necessary to produce a
full program that goes to a level where students could discuss Paul in Greek
(or Isaiah in Hebrew). It takes more than 6 or 12 weeks of an immersion
school.


> Especially working on one's own!
> Rob Daniel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:
> b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Randall Buth
> Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 1:44 PM
> To: Charles Johnson
> Cc: B Greek
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Further Study
>
> why are you looking for 'native speakers'? Isn't it possible to learn a
> language with second language users? language learning and use is a
> spiraling affair.
> Randall Buth
>
> On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 9:37 PM, Charles Johnson <cpj5117 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I see what you're getting at. It makes sense. The ideal would be to
> > participate in a community of native Koine-Greek speakers, where I
> > could constantly be exposed to Koine Greek and learn and grow through
> > the effort of composing my own thoughts in Koine. However, there is no
> such community.
> > Unless I have constant recourse to native speakers, my own
> > compositions will be horrendously Anglicized and without correction.
> > Even when I do get an ok Greek composition, the telltale signs of an
> > English speaker (sub-verb-obj; adj before noun) are still all too
> > visible. Is there a way through this impasse?
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Randall Buth <randallbuth at gmail.com
> >wrote:
> >
> >> you've just taken the first step. knowing that there is somewhere to
> >> go is step one.
> >> step two is tricky. language learning seems to take place at right
> >> angles to what some might expect. a clue: if you had done 27 units of
> >> German would you be able to express a few thoughts? would you have
> >> more of an idea about how to go about it? the biggest paradox of all
> >> is that you learn a language by using a language, but the learner
> >> always asks how one can use what they don't know.
> >>  Randall Buth
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 8:45 PM, Charles Johnson <cpj5117 at gmail.com
> >wrote:
> >>
> >>> Terry, thank you for the bibliography. When I say I can read, I mean
> that
> >>> I can without too much difficulty take Greek and make English out of
> it.
> >>> There are many times, though, when I do not comprehend the "why" behind
> the
> >>> "what." I cannot always explain why a particular voice, tense, or mood
> was
> >>> chosen, or why a certain word ordering. In fact, my classes focused
> very
> >>> little on word order.
> >>>
> >>> Dr. Buth, I tried. It didn't go so well. I have done very limited
> >>> composition (especially oral). I also have no background in Classical
> Greek,
> >>> a detriment I'm sure. It was a useful exercise in showing me I have a
> long
> >>> way to go. It strikes me, though, that I have to improve my skill at
> >>> understanding what's really going on in the Greek language before I can
> >>> replicate it myself. Any suggestions?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 12:38 PM, Randall Buth <randallbuth at gmail.com
> >wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> >I am looking for recommendations for further study
> >>>> resources/programs/readings. I am a seminarian who has completed about
> >>>> 27
> >>>> credit hours of Biblical Greek. I am comfortable reading in almost all
> >>>> of
> >>>> the NT (Hebrews is still hard) and have a grammatical understanding at
> >>>> about
> >>>> the level of Wallace's *Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics*. I am
> >>>> particularly
> >>>> interested in resources that will help me apprehend the grammar more
> >>>> precisely.
> >>>> Thanks for all the wisdom,
> >>>> Charlie Johnson>
> >>>>
> >>>> It is important to discovrer what one doesn't know so that it gets
> >>>> filled in.
> >>>> Try speaking your next three thoughts to yourself in Koine Greek, and
> >>>> see
> >>>> if you don't discover something.
> >>>> Randall Buth
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Randall Buth, PhD
> >>>> www.biblicalulpan.org
> >>>> randallbuth at gmail.com
> >>>> Biblical Language Center
> >>>> Learn Easily - Progress Further - Remember for Life
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Randall Buth, PhD
> >> www.biblicalulpan.org
> >> randallbuth at gmail.com
> >> Biblical Language Center
> >> Learn Easily - Progress Further - Remember for Life
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
> --
> Randall Buth, PhD
> www.biblicalulpan.org
> randallbuth at gmail.com
> Biblical Language Center
> Learn Easily - Progress Further - Remember for Life
> ---
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>



-- 
Randall Buth, PhD
www.biblicalulpan.org
randallbuth at gmail.com
Biblical Language Center
Learn Easily - Progress Further - Remember for Life



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