[B-Greek] What we can live with (was papyrus text)

vunzndi at vfemail.net vunzndi at vfemail.net
Mon Apr 13 11:53:09 EDT 2009


As far as learning a second language is concerned the principle is  
that learners ususally try to fit a language into the petterns they  
are used to in the language(s) they are already fluent in. One example  
would be Chinese people learning English, people from northern China  
find it easier to learn English with an American accent, whereas  
southern Chinese find it easier to learn English with a British accent.


John K

Quoting "Yancy Smith" <yancywsmith at sbcglobal.net>:

>
> I certainly agree, that is why I said "part of a system." However, the
> prununciation or phonetics of natural language has its own internal
> logic--a basic saw in linguistics--that facilitates the use of the
> language by reducing or harmonizing otherwise difficult to pronounce
> combinations. I believe that natural pronuciation can help the brain
> establish pattern and connections that may also be missed. On the
> other hand, educated native speakers also can "contrive" pronunciation
> (or make it pedantically accurate) for the purpose of teaching the
> language at time, though fluidity is usually the goal in such cases.
> Some of you with more lingustic knowledge may be able to help me out
> here, but it seems to me that a natural phonetic derived from native
> speakers would be better for learning a language than one contrived by
> non-native speakers. For example, the presence of B in MESHMBRIA (Acts
> 22:6) suggests that KOINE speakers trilled the intervocalic RHO much
> like Spanish speakers do today. BDAG dutifully reports that the word
> is a combination of MESOS + hHMERA. The E is reduced resulting in the
> combination MR. Because the R is pronounced as a dental flap, it gets
> represented as MBR-
>
>
> Yancy Smith, PhD
> 5636 Wedgworth Road
> Fort Worth, TX 76133 USA
>
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 13, 2009, at 8:37 AM, "Suttles, Andrew C. (GRC-DSI0)"  
> <andrew.c.suttles at nasa.gov
>  > wrote:
>
>> Dr. Smith -
>>
>>> The Erasmian pronunciation scheme is part of a system that has
>>> rarely produced students capable of actually thinking or much less
>>> communicating in Greek. <
>>
>> It seems we may be asking a "pronunciation scheme" to carry a burden
>> it's not capable of bearing.
>>
>> Andrew
>> Cleveland, OH
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
>>> [mailto:b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Yancy Smith
>>> Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 4:27 PM
>>> To: greek B-Greek
>>> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] What we can live with (was papyrus text)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Mark EGRAPSE:
>>>
>>>
>>> I can't really explain why I can live with TA and TO sounding
>>> alike but not TO and TWi.
>>>
>>> If you want to make a convert to Living Koine out of one of
>>> the most articulate defenders of Erasmus out there (me), you
>>> are going to have to convince him how he CAN live with it.
>>>
>>>   I for one wish we could live with a higher standard in
>>> teaching/ learning Greek at a seminary level. A standard to
>>> which Dr. Buth's comments point indirectly. The "imprecision"
>>> in the spelling of Greek in the papyri is an indicator of a
>>> living language in use: something toward which our teaching
>>> and learning should strive.  I have used LIVING KOINE for
>>> non-traditional students in seminary who have learning
>>> disorders (e.g. unable to memorize the alphabet). I lament,
>>> however, that we could not use it for traditional students.
>>> The problem was not the students, but lack of faculty unable
>>> to try something other than the dismally unsuccessful
>>> traditional appraoch.
>>>     We should judge the traditional approach by the same
>>> standard we use to determine the success or failure of any
>>> other foreign language teaching program. The Erasmian
>>> pronunciation scheme is part of a system that has rarely
>>> produced students capable of actually thinking or much less
>>> communicating in Greek.
>>>
>>>  Success in these two areas would certainly lead to greater
>>> facility in understanding the texts of ancient Christians.
>>> Perhaps it would lead to greater quality in the application of
>>> the fruits of exegesis.
>>>
>>> Yancy Smith, Ph.D.
>>> 5636 Wedgworth Road
>>> Fort Worth, TX 76133
>>> 817-675-6033
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek B-Greek
>>> mailing list B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
>>>
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>
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