[B-Greek] Eph 1:9: Going beyond grammar?
Kenneth Litwak
javajedi2 at yahoo.com
Fri Aug 14 00:46:23 EDT 2009
I appreciate the comments from George and Carl. Yes, Carl, I suppose that my concern is partly a translation issue. Perhaps though I should state it differently, because I don't really find the BDAG contents to have warrant (in that it does not show why grammatically or syntactically some specific sense is required/appropriate). So, phrased differently, EN hAUTWk or EN XRISTOS or EN hWi by themselves are vague. So a Greek speaker simply by hearing EN hAUTWi in a letter from Paul is not going to know what that prepositional phrase actually signifies, even though he/she would readily recognize EN (and doubtless understand its range of meaning far better than I ever will) and AUTWk. What in the text would dictate or at least suggest to an original hearer that EN AUTWk has some specific semantic significance, let alone some theological significance?That is what I'm really asking. "In relationship with" or the like might well be what Paul means at times
but what would indicate this to a Greek speaker who doubtless could suggest many other ways in which to take such a prhase? Thanks.
Ken
--- On Thu, 8/13/09, George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com> wrote:
> From: George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Eph 1:9: Going beyond grammar?
> To: "Kenneth Litwak" <javajedi2 at yahoo.com>, b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Date: Thursday, August 13, 2009, 3:29 AM
> γνωρίσας ἡμῖν τὸ
> μυστήριον τοῦ θελήματος αὐτοῦ,
> κατὰ τὴν εὐδοκίαν αὐτοῦ ἣν
> προέθετο ἐν αὐτῷ
> GNWRISAS hHMIN TO MUSTHRION TOU QELHMATOS AUTOU KATA THN
> EUDOKIAN AUTOU hHN PROEQETO EN AUTWi
>
> ⓒesp.in Paul.or Joh.usage, to designate a close personal
> relation in which the referent of the ἐν-term is viewed
> as the controlling influence: under the control of, under
> the influence of, in close association with (cp.ἐν τῷ
> Δαυιδ εἰμί2 Km 19:44): of Christ εἶναι,
> μένειν ἐν τῷ πατρί (ἐν τῷ θεῷ) J
> 10:38; 14:10f(difft.CGordon, ‘In’ of Predication or
> Equivalence: JBL100, ’81, 612f); and of Christians 1J
> 3:24; 4:13,15f; beor abide in ChristJ 14:20; 15:4f;
> μένειν ἐν τῷ υἱῷ καὶ ἐν τῷ
> πατρί1J 2:24.ἔργα ἐν θεῷ
> εἰργασμέναdone in communion with GodJ 3:21(but s.
> 1e above).—In Paul the relation of the individual to
> Christ is very oft.expressed by such phrases as ἐν
> Χριστῷ, ἐν κυρίῳetc., also vice versa
> (FNeugebauer, NTS4, ’57/58, 124–[Page 328] 38;
> AWedderburn, JSNT25, ’85, 83–97) ἐν ἐμοὶ
> ΧριστόςGal 2:20,but
> here in the sense of a above.—See, e.g., Dssm., D. ntl.
> Formel ‘in Christo Jesu’ 1892; EWeber, D. Formel ‘in
> Chr. Jesu’ u. d. paul. Christusmystik: NKZ31, 1920, 213ff;
> LBrun, Zur Formel ‘in Chr. Jesus’ im Phil: Symbolae
> Arctoae 1, 1922, 19–37; MHansen, Omkring Paulus-Formeln
> ‘i Kristus’: TK 4/10, 1929, 135–59; HBöhlig,
> ʼΕνκυρίῳ: GHeinrici Festschr.1914, 170–75;
> OSchmitz, D. Christusgemeinschaft d. Pls2’56;
> AWikenhauser, D. Christusmystik d. Pls2’56; KMittring,
> Heilswirklichkeit b. Pls; Beitrag z. Verständnis der unio
> cum Christo in d. Plsbriefen 1929; ASchweitzer, D. Mystik d.
> Ap. Pls 1930 (Eng. tr., WMontgomery, The Myst. of Paul the
> Ap., ’31); WSchmauch, In Christus ’35; BEaston, Pastoral
> Ep.’47, 210f; FBüchsel, ‘In Chr.’ b. Pls: ZNW42,
> ’49, 141–58. Also HKorn, D. Nachwirkungen d.
> Christusmystik d. Pls in den Apost. Vätern, diss.Berlin
> 1928; EAndrews, Interpretation 6, ’52, 162–77;
> H-LParisius, ZNW49, ’58, 285–88 (10 ‘forensic’
> passages); JAllan, NTS5, ’58/59, 54–62 (Eph), ibid.10,
> ’63, 115–21 (pastorals); FNeugebauer, In Christus, etc.
> ’61; MDahl, The Resurrection of the Body (1 Cor 15) ’62,
> 110–13.—Paul has the most varied expressions for this
> new life-principle: life in Christ Ro 6:11,23; love in
> Christ 8:39; grace, which is given in Christ 1 Cor 1:4;
> freedom in Chr. Gal 2:4; blessing in Chr. 3:14; unity in
> Chr. vs. 28.στήκειν ἐν κυρίῳstand firm in
> the LordPhil 4:1; εὑρεθῆναι ἐν Χ. be found in
> Christ3:9; εἶναι ἐν Χ. 1 Cor 1:30; οἱ ἐν Χ.
> Ro 8:1.—1 Pt 5:14; κοιμᾶσθαι ἐν Χ.,
> ἀποθνῄσκειν ἐν κυρίῳ1 Cor 15:18.—Rv
> 14:13; ζῳοποιεῖσθαι1 Cor 15:22.—The formula
> is esp.common w. verbs that denote a conviction, hope, etc.
> πεποιθέναιGal 5:10; Phil 1:14; 2 Th
> 3:4.παρρησίαν ἔχεινPhlm
> 8.πέπεισμαιRo 14:14.ἐλπίζεινPhil
> 2:19.καύχησιν ἔχεινRo 15:17; 1 Cor 15:31.τὸ
> αὐτὸ φρονεῖνPhil 4:2.ὑπακούεινEph
> 6:1.λαλεῖν2 Cor 2:17; 12:19.ἀλήθειαν
> λέγεινRo 9:1.λέγειν καὶ
> μαρτύρεσθαιEph 4:17.But also apart fr.such verbs,
> in numerous pass.it is used w. verbs and nouns of the most
> varied sort, often without special emphasis, to indicate the
> scope within which someth.takes place or has taken place, or
> to designate someth.as being in close assoc. w. Christ, and
> can be rendered, variously, in connection with, in intimate
> association with, keeping in mindἁγιάζεσθαι1 Cor
> 1:2,or ἅγιος ἐν Χ. Phil 1:1; ἀσπάζεσθαί
> τινα1 Cor 16:19.δικαιοῦσθαιGal
> 2:17.κοπιᾶνRo 16:12.παρακαλεῖν1 Th
> 4:1.προσδέχεσθαί τιναRo 16:2; Phil
> 2:29.χαίρειν3:1; 4:4,10.γαμηθῆναι ἐν
> κυρίῳmarry in the Lord=marry a Christian 1 Cor
> 7:39.προϊστάμενοι ὑμῶν ἐν
> κυρίῳyour Christian leaders (in the church)1 Th
> 5:12(but s. προΐστημι1 and
> 2).—εὐάρεστοςCol 3:20.νήπιος1 Cor
> 3:1.φρόνιμος4:10.παιδαγωγοίvs.
> 15.ὁδοίvs. 17.Hence used in periphrasis for
> ‘Christian’ οἱ ὄντες ἐν κυρίῳRo 16:11;
> ἄνθρωπος ἐν Χ. 2 Cor 12:2; αἱ
> ἐκκλησίαι αἱ ἐν Χ. Gal 1:22; 1 Th 2:14;
> νεκροὶ ἐν Χ. 4:16; ἐκλεκτόςRo
> 16:13.δόκιμοςvs. 10.δέσμιοςEph
> 4:1.πιστὸς διάκονος6:21; ἐν Χ.
> γεννᾶν τιναbecome someone’s parent in the
> Christian life1 Cor 4:15.τὸ ἔργον μου
> ὑμεῖς ἐστε ἐν κυρίῳ9:1.—The use of
> ἐν πνεύματιas a formulaic expression is sim.:
> ἐν πν. εἶναιbe under the impulsion of the
> spirit,i.e.the new self, as opposed to ἐν
> σαρκίunder the domination of the old selfRo 8:9;
> cp.ἐν νόμῳ2:12.λαλεῖνspeak under divine
> inspiration1 Cor 12:3.ἐγενόμην ἐν
> πνεύματιI was in a state of inspirationRv 1:10; 4:2;
> opp.ἐν ἑαυτῷ γενόμενοςcame to himselfAc
> 12:11(cp.X., An. 1, 5, 17 et al.).—The expr.ἐν πν.
> εἶναιis also used to express the idea that someone is
> under the special infl.of a good or even an undesirable
> spirit: Mt 22:43; Mk 12:36; Lk 2:27; 1 Cor 12:3; Rv 17:3;
> 21:10.ἄνθρωπος ἐν πν. ἀκαθάρτῳ
> (ὤν) Mk 1:23(s. GBjörck, ConNeot7, ’42,
> 1–3).—ἐν τῷ πονηρῷ κεῖσθαιbe in the
> power of the evil one1J 5:19.οἱ ἐν νόμῳthose who
> are subject to the lawRo 3:19.ἐν τῷ Ἀδὰμ
> ἀποθνῄσκεινdie because of a connectionw.Adam1
> Cor 15:22.—On the formula ἐν ὀνόματι
> (Χριστοῦ) s. ὄνομα1, esp.dγג. The OTis the
> source of the
> expr.ὀμνύναι ἔν τινιswear by someoneor
> someth.(oft.LXX) Mt 5:34ff; 23:16,18ff; Rv 10:6;
> παραγγέλλομέν σοι ἐν ἸησοῦAc
> 19:14v.l.The usage in ὁμολογεῖν ἔν
> τινιacknowledge someoneMt 10:32; Lk 12:8(s.
> ὁμολογέω4b) is Aramaic.
>
> Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., & Bauer, W. (2000). A
> Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early
> Christian literature. (3rd ed.) (s.v. ἐν). Chicago:
> University of Chicago Press.
>
> george
> gfsomsel
>
>
> … search for truth, hear truth,
> learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
> defend the truth till death.
>
>
> - Jan Hus
> _________
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Kenneth Litwak <javajedi2 at yahoo.com>
> To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 9:05:55 PM
> Subject: [B-Greek] Eph 1:9: Going beyond grammar?
>
> Eph 1:9 reads in part
> KATA THN EUDOKIAN AUTOU HN PROEQETO EN AUTWi
>
> This clause is one of the many examples in Paul of EN +
> some word in teh Dative, usually AUTWi. I notice that many
> translations render virtually all such constructions as "in
> him," e.g., the NASB. That is possible and unless we are
> prepared to render virtually all such instances by a dative
> of means, which could be appropriate some of the time, I am
> wondering if there's something beyond the simple
> identification of such a construction as, say, a locative
> use of the dative. I chose this example not quite at
> random but close. What I'm interested in is there
> something beyond the simple identification of the syntax
> here that might tell us what Paul actually means. How do
> you purpose something in someone?
>
> Col 2:11 provides a similar example EN (W you were
> circumcised. What does the dative signify beyond location
> and what could Paul possibly mean by saying that an event
> happened within some other individual?
>
> That is, after we've translated such phrases, I'm hoping
> there was something more that would have clued the original
> audience into what this construction actually signifried,
> which is a different question from how it should be
> translated.
>
> I am assuming of course that the small prepositional
> phrases and the like, at least in the epistles, have
> significance, even if meaning is really established at
> higher level of disocurse.
>
> Ken Litwak
>
>
>
> ---
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