[B-Greek] Eph 1:9: Going beyond grammar?

Iver Larsen iver_larsen at sil.org
Fri Aug 14 05:05:51 EDT 2009


Dear Ken,

As a translator, this is the kind of topic that I have to wrestle with.

I agree with both you and Carl that the phrase "in Christ" in English is pretty 
meaningless and often misleading, because the use of "in" in English is so much 
more restricted than the use of EN in Koine Greek.

One of the problems we have to deal with is the holy tradition of concordant 
Bible translation. This unhelpful tradition has conditioned us to think that one 
ought to use the same phrase in translation when the same phrase occurs in the 
original Greek. I don't think it helps to substitute "in Christ" with "in 
relationship to Christ" or "in union with Christ" (a favorite of the GNB), 
because we simply cannot use the same phrase all the time in every context, 
because the meaning of the phrase is not the same.

So, when you talk about going beyond the grammar, I suppose you mean going 
beyond the word and phrase level to the higher levels of sentence and paragraph. 
In a different way, this is repeating what George said: Context, context, 
context. The only way to properly understand a phrase like EN AUTWi/CRISTWi is 
NOT to translate it by "in (union with) Christ" and then try to see if that 
might fit the context. Rather, look at the context to see what meaning fits. 
Quite often the EN does indicate means as you suggested, and in the case of Eph 
1:9, that seems to fit the context best. God decided beforehand that he would 
accomplish his plan of salvation by means of what Christ was to do. So, in this 
case, I am reasonably satisfied with GNB: "God did what he had purposed, and 
made known to us the secret plan he had already decided to complete by means of 
Christ." God's Word also translates it well: "He had decided to do this through 
Christ."

However, you also mentioned Col 2:11 where NIV says: "In him you were also 
circumcised.." That does not communicate the intended meaning at all, and here I 
do not like the GNB: "In union with Christ you were circumcised." Here, too, I 
think it goes towards "by means of Christ", but "Christ" is often used as a 
metonym, and what this metonym refers to, can only be understood from context. 
Sometimes it is by means of what Christ has done, other times it is by means of 
what God has done through Christ, and other times it is by means of what we have 
done in response to what Christ did. I would say that this is the intended sense 
here. When we came to believe in Christ, we were spiritually circumcised "in the 
heart". So, in this case, something like the NLT would be my choice: "When you 
came to Christ, you were “circumcised,” but not by a physical procedure. Christ 
performed a spiritual circumcision..." In our Danish version we said: "Through 
your faith in Christ..."

Iver Larsen

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kenneth Litwak" <javajedi2 at yahoo.com>
To: <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>; "George F Somsel" <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>
Sent: 14. august 2009 06:46
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Eph 1:9: Going beyond grammar?


>I appreciate the comments from George and Carl.  Yes, Carl, I suppose that my 
>concern is partly a translation issue.  Perhaps though I should state it 
>differently, because I don't really find the BDAG contents to have warrant (in 
>that it does not show why grammatically or syntactically some specific sense is 
>required/appropriate).  So, phrased differently, EN hAUTWk or EN XRISTOS or EN 
>hWi by themselves are vague.  So a Greek speaker simply by hearing EN hAUTWi in 
>a letter from Paul is not going to know what that prepositional phrase actually 
>signifies, even though he/she would readily recognize EN (and doubtless 
>understand its range of meaning far better than I ever will) and AUTWk.  What 
>in the text would dictate or at least suggest to an original hearer that EN 
>AUTWk has some specific semantic significance, let alone some theological 
>significance?That is what I'm really asking.  "In relationship with" or the 
>like might well be what Paul means at times
> but what would indicate this to a Greek speaker who doubtless could suggest 
> many other ways in which to take such a prhase?  Thanks.
>
> Ken
>
> --- On Thu, 8/13/09, George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> From: George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Eph 1:9:  Going beyond grammar?
>> To: "Kenneth Litwak" <javajedi2 at yahoo.com>, b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>> Date: Thursday, August 13, 2009, 3:29 AM
>> γνωρίσας ἡμῖν τὸ
>> μυστήριον τοῦ θελήματος αὐτοῦ,
>> κατὰ τὴν εὐδοκίαν αὐτοῦ ἣν
>> προέθετο ἐν αὐτῷ
>> GNWRISAS hHMIN TO MUSTHRION TOU QELHMATOS AUTOU KATA THN
>> EUDOKIAN AUTOU hHN PROEQETO EN AUTWi
>>
>> ⓒesp.in Paul.or Joh.usage, to designate a close personal
>> relation in which the referent of the ἐν-term is viewed
>> as the controlling influence: under the control of, under
>> the influence of, in close association with (cp.ἐν τῷ
>> Δαυιδ εἰμί2 Km 19:44): of Christ εἶναι,
>> μένειν ἐν τῷ πατρί (ἐν τῷ θεῷ) J
>> 10:38; 14:10f(difft.CGordon, ‘In’ of Predication or
>> Equivalence: JBL100, ’81, 612f); and of Christians 1J
>> 3:24; 4:13,15f; beor abide in ChristJ 14:20; 15:4f;
>> μένειν ἐν τῷ υἱῷ καὶ ἐν τῷ
>> πατρί1J 2:24.ἔργα ἐν θεῷ
>> εἰργασμέναdone in communion with GodJ 3:21(but s.
>> 1e above).—In Paul the relation of the individual to
>> Christ is very oft.expressed by such phrases as ἐν
>> Χριστῷ, ἐν κυρίῳetc., also vice versa
>> (FNeugebauer, NTS4, ’57/58, 124–[Page 328] 38;
>> AWedderburn, JSNT25, ’85, 83–97) ἐν ἐμοὶ
>> ΧριστόςGal 2:20,but
>>  here in the sense of a above.—See, e.g., Dssm., D. ntl.
>> Formel ‘in Christo Jesu’ 1892; EWeber, D. Formel ‘in
>> Chr. Jesu’ u. d. paul. Christusmystik: NKZ31, 1920, 213ff;
>> LBrun, Zur Formel ‘in Chr. Jesus’ im Phil: Symbolae
>> Arctoae 1, 1922, 19–37; MHansen, Omkring Paulus-Formeln
>> ‘i Kristus’: TK 4/10, 1929, 135–59; HBöhlig,
>> ʼΕνκυρίῳ: GHeinrici Festschr.1914, 170–75;
>> OSchmitz, D. Christusgemeinschaft d. Pls2’56;
>> AWikenhauser, D. Christusmystik d. Pls2’56; KMittring,
>> Heilswirklichkeit b. Pls; Beitrag z. Verständnis der unio
>> cum Christo in d. Plsbriefen 1929; ASchweitzer, D. Mystik d.
>> Ap. Pls 1930 (Eng. tr., WMontgomery, The Myst. of Paul the
>> Ap., ’31); WSchmauch, In Christus ’35; BEaston, Pastoral
>> Ep.’47, 210f; FBüchsel, ‘In Chr.’ b. Pls: ZNW42,
>> ’49, 141–58. Also HKorn, D. Nachwirkungen d.
>> Christusmystik d. Pls in den Apost. Vätern, diss.Berlin
>> 1928; EAndrews, Interpretation 6, ’52, 162–77;
>>  H-LParisius, ZNW49, ’58, 285–88 (10 ‘forensic’
>> passages); JAllan, NTS5, ’58/59, 54–62 (Eph), ibid.10,
>> ’63, 115–21 (pastorals); FNeugebauer, In Christus, etc.
>> ’61; MDahl, The Resurrection of the Body (1 Cor 15) ’62,
>> 110–13.—Paul has the most varied expressions for this
>> new life-principle: life in Christ Ro 6:11,23; love in
>> Christ 8:39; grace, which is given in Christ 1 Cor 1:4;
>> freedom in Chr. Gal 2:4; blessing in Chr. 3:14; unity in
>> Chr. vs. 28.στήκειν ἐν κυρίῳstand firm in
>> the LordPhil 4:1; εὑρεθῆναι ἐν Χ. be found in
>> Christ3:9; εἶναι ἐν Χ. 1 Cor 1:30; οἱ ἐν Χ.
>> Ro 8:1.—1 Pt 5:14; κοιμᾶσθαι ἐν Χ.,
>> ἀποθνῄσκειν ἐν κυρίῳ1 Cor 15:18.—Rv
>> 14:13; ζῳοποιεῖσθαι1 Cor 15:22.—The formula
>> is esp.common w. verbs that denote a conviction, hope, etc.
>> πεποιθέναιGal 5:10; Phil 1:14; 2 Th
>> 3:4.παρρησίαν ἔχεινPhlm
>>  8.πέπεισμαιRo 14:14.ἐλπίζεινPhil
>> 2:19.καύχησιν ἔχεινRo 15:17; 1 Cor 15:31.τὸ
>> αὐτὸ φρονεῖνPhil 4:2.ὑπακούεινEph
>> 6:1.λαλεῖν2 Cor 2:17; 12:19.ἀλήθειαν
>> λέγεινRo 9:1.λέγειν καὶ
>> μαρτύρεσθαιEph 4:17.But also apart fr.such verbs,
>> in numerous pass.it is used w. verbs and nouns of the most
>> varied sort, often without special emphasis, to indicate the
>> scope within which someth.takes place or has taken place, or
>> to designate someth.as being in close assoc. w. Christ, and
>> can be rendered, variously, in connection with, in intimate
>> association with, keeping in mindἁγιάζεσθαι1 Cor
>> 1:2,or ἅγιος ἐν Χ. Phil 1:1; ἀσπάζεσθαί
>> τινα1 Cor 16:19.δικαιοῦσθαιGal
>> 2:17.κοπιᾶνRo 16:12.παρακαλεῖν1 Th
>> 4:1.προσδέχεσθαί τιναRo 16:2; Phil
>> 2:29.χαίρειν3:1; 4:4,10.γαμηθῆναι ἐν
>>  κυρίῳmarry in the Lord=marry a Christian 1 Cor
>> 7:39.προϊστάμενοι ὑμῶν ἐν
>> κυρίῳyour Christian leaders (in the church)1 Th
>> 5:12(but s. προΐστημι1 and
>> 2).—εὐάρεστοςCol 3:20.νήπιος1 Cor
>> 3:1.φρόνιμος4:10.παιδαγωγοίvs.
>> 15.ὁδοίvs. 17.Hence used in periphrasis for
>> ‘Christian’ οἱ ὄντες ἐν κυρίῳRo 16:11;
>> ἄνθρωπος ἐν Χ. 2 Cor 12:2; αἱ
>> ἐκκλησίαι αἱ ἐν Χ. Gal 1:22; 1 Th 2:14;
>> νεκροὶ ἐν Χ. 4:16; ἐκλεκτόςRo
>> 16:13.δόκιμοςvs. 10.δέσμιοςEph
>> 4:1.πιστὸς διάκονος6:21; ἐν Χ.
>> γεννᾶν τιναbecome someone’s parent in the
>> Christian life1 Cor 4:15.τὸ ἔργον μου
>> ὑμεῖς ἐστε ἐν κυρίῳ9:1.—The use of
>> ἐν πνεύματιas a formulaic expression is sim.:
>> ἐν πν. εἶναιbe under the impulsion of the
>> spirit,i.e.the new self, as opposed to ἐν
>>  σαρκίunder the domination of the old selfRo 8:9;
>> cp.ἐν νόμῳ2:12.λαλεῖνspeak under divine
>> inspiration1 Cor 12:3.ἐγενόμην ἐν
>> πνεύματιI was in a state of inspirationRv 1:10; 4:2;
>> opp.ἐν ἑαυτῷ γενόμενοςcame to himselfAc
>> 12:11(cp.X., An. 1, 5, 17 et al.).—The expr.ἐν πν.
>> εἶναιis also used to express the idea that someone is
>> under the special infl.of a good or even an undesirable
>> spirit: Mt 22:43; Mk 12:36; Lk 2:27; 1 Cor 12:3; Rv 17:3;
>> 21:10.ἄνθρωπος ἐν πν. ἀκαθάρτῳ
>> (ὤν) Mk 1:23(s. GBjörck, ConNeot7, ’42,
>> 1–3).—ἐν τῷ πονηρῷ κεῖσθαιbe in the
>> power of the evil one1J 5:19.οἱ ἐν νόμῳthose who
>> are subject to the lawRo 3:19.ἐν τῷ Ἀδὰμ
>> ἀποθνῄσκεινdie because of a connectionw.Adam1
>> Cor 15:22.—On the formula ἐν ὀνόματι
>> (Χριστοῦ) s. ὄνομα1, esp.dγג. The OTis the
>> source of the
>>  expr.ὀμνύναι ἔν τινιswear by someoneor
>> someth.(oft.LXX) Mt 5:34ff; 23:16,18ff; Rv 10:6;
>> παραγγέλλομέν σοι ἐν ἸησοῦAc
>> 19:14v.l.The usage in ὁμολογεῖν ἔν
>> τινιacknowledge someoneMt 10:32; Lk 12:8(s.
>> ὁμολογέω4b) is Aramaic.
>>
>> Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., & Bauer, W. (2000). A
>> Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early
>> Christian literature. (3rd ed.) (s.v. ἐν). Chicago:
>> University of Chicago Press.
>>
>> george
>> gfsomsel
>> ________________________________
>> From: Kenneth Litwak <javajedi2 at yahoo.com>
>> To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 9:05:55 PM
>> Subject: [B-Greek] Eph 1:9: Going beyond grammar?
>>
>> Eph 1:9 reads in part
>> KATA THN EUDOKIAN AUTOU HN PROEQETO EN AUTWi
>>
>> This clause is one of the many examples in Paul of EN +
>> some word in teh Dative, usually AUTWi. I notice that many
>> translations render virtually all such constructions as "in
>> him," e.g., the NASB. That is possible and unless we are
>> prepared to render virtually all such instances by a dative
>> of means, which could be appropriate some of the time, I am
>> wondering if there's something beyond the simple
>> identification of such a construction as, say, a locative
>> use of the dative. I chose this example not quite at
>> random but close. What I'm interested in is there
>> something beyond the simple identification of the syntax
>> here that might tell us what Paul actually means. How do
>> you purpose something in someone?
>>
>> Col 2:11 provides a similar example EN (W you were
>> circumcised. What does the dative signify beyond location
>> and what could Paul possibly mean by saying that an event
>> happened within some other individual?
>>
>> That is, after we've translated such phrases, I'm hoping
>> there was something more that would have clued the original
>> audience into what this construction actually signifried,
>> which is a different question from how it should be
>> translated.
>>
>> I am assuming of course that the small prepositional
>> phrases and the like, at least in the epistles, have
>> significance, even if meaning is really established at
>> higher level of disocurse.
>>
>> Ken Litwak




More information about the B-Greek mailing list