[B-Greek] Habbakuk 2:4b - objective genitive?

Albert Pietersma albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca
Fri Dec 18 15:15:54 EST 2009


You are not seriously suggesting, are you, George, that the Greek of  
Num 14.11 has interpretive bearing on Hab 2.4b?
Furthermore, I don't know how one determines what "the translators  
were well aware of" except from the text they left us. And the text  
they/he left us in Hab 2.4b is tolerant of two interpretations, one  
which can, with reasonable certainty, be attributed to the translator,  
and another one which might justifiably be attributed to it by  
reception history. Both have equal validity, though they differ in  
logical and historical precedence.
Incidentally, to focus exclusively on a possible misreading of YOD for  
WAW in the phrase under discussion ignores other discrepancies between  
MT and LXX in the context. But, as others have already noted, the  
source text is not at issue.
Al
On Dec 18, 2009, at 2:18 PM, George F Somsel wrote:

> There are a few things of which we are reasonably sure.  One of  
> these is that the translators of the LXX tended to translate rather  
> literally.  The difference between "my faith" and "his faith" is the  
> difference between reading a waw or a yod in the Hebrew.  Another  
> secure fact is that the pronominal suffix of the Massoretic text at  
> this point being a waw is in some scripts little different from the  
> yod.  It therefore seems most likely that the waw was confused for a  
> waw.  There is a passage in the MT which speaks of having faith in God
>
> וְעַד־אָנָה לֹא־יַאֲמִינוּ בִיἕως  
> τίνος οὐ πιστεύουσίν μοι
> hEWS TINOS PISTEUOUSIN MOI
> (Num 14.11)
>
> "How long will they not have faith in me?"
>
> Note that this is not expressed by a pronominal suffix but rather by  
> a preposition with the pronominal suffix.  I'm sure that the  
> translators were well aware of this and would not have translated it  
> so as to imply that they would have understood ἐκ πίστεώς  
> μου EK PISTEWS MOU as "faith in me" (or "believing me").
>
>  george
> gfsomsel
>
>
> … search for truth, hear truth,
> learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
> defend the truth till death.
>
>
> - Jan Hus
> _________
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Brian Abasciano <bvabasciano at gmail.com>
> To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org; "Weiss, Eric" <papaweiss1 at yahoo.com>
> Sent: Fri, December 18, 2009 11:52:06 AM
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Habbakuk 2:4b - objective genitive?
>
> To answer your question simply and straightforwardly, Eric, I  
> believe it is
> pretty certain that an objective genitive is possible here. Of  
> course, it is
> another question whether it is probable.
>
> God bless,
>
> Brian Abasciano
>
>> Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2009 06:01:17 -0800 (PST)
>> From: "Eric S. Weiss" <papaweiss1 at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: [B-Greek] Habbakuk 2:4b - objective genitive?
>> To: b-greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Message-ID: <521485.19175.qm at web65609.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>
>> AMBAKOUM 2:4b: hO DE DIKAIOS EK PISTEWS MOU ZHSETAI
>> ?
>> Both Brenton and NETS translate this as: "but the just shall live  
>> by my
>> faith" (NETS notes
>> "Or faithfulness").
>> ?
>> Is it possible for?MOU to not be?a possessive genitive, but an  
>> objective
>> genitive - i.e., "but
>> the just [man/person] shall live by/because-of?his faith in Me"?
>> ?
>> - - -
>> Eric S. Weiss
>> ?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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—
Albert Pietersma PhD
21 Cross Street,
Weston ON Canada M9N 2B8
Email: albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca
Homepage: http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~pietersm




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