[B-Greek] Did the shepherds believe? Luke 2:15
Rod Rogers
rngrogers at embarqmail.com
Tue Dec 22 22:01:00 EST 2009
Jay, I'm not sure you got your second
question answered. I did a search in Logos
and found 11 verses where there are 2
Subjunctive verbs (first person plural)
within 5 words of KAI, Matthew 21:38; Mark
15:32; Luke 2:15; John 6:30; John 11:16; 1
Corinthians 15:32; 1 Thessalonians 5:6;
Hebrews 4:16; 1 John 2:28; 1 John 5:2;
Revelation 19:7. To make a long answer short,
I think John 6:30; John 11:16; Mark 15:32;
Hebrews 4:16; 1 John 5:2 answers your
question. It appears that when the two
Subjunctives are in their own clauses they
are always translated as Hortatory
Subjunctives. When the two Subjunctives are
governed by a conjunction as hINA or hOTAN
they are not translated as such. Hope this
helps. I'm sure that if I have made a mistake
someone will set it straight.
Rod Rogers
----- Original Message -----
From: Jay Adkins
To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 6:51 AM
Subject: [B-Greek] Did the shepherds believe?
Luke 2:15
Dear BGreek,
Luke 2:15b DIELQWMEN DH EWS BHQLEEM KAI
IDWMEN TO RHMA TOUTO YEYOVOS O hO
KURIOS EGNWRISEN HMIN
Let us go now to Bethlehem that we might see
[if] this saying has happened
which the Lord has made known to us.
Let us go now to Bethlehem and see this thing
that has happened which the
Lord has made known to us.
When I first translated I thought to add the
[if] into the words of the
shepherds. I did this due to the subjunctive
of both verbs. Since,
however, I found no support from other
translations, I removed it. And then
I change the term saying to thing and also
removed that we might
replacing it with and so as to make a
smoother English phrase and to agree
with the other translations. Now I
understand that the subjunctive can be
used for an imperative instead of potential
action. My question is what key
in the context is there here that I missed?
How do we know for sure that
the shepherds believed the word of the angels
or were in some doubt and
needed proof? Secondly, in a construct such
as this one, can one
subjunctive be used as an imperative and the
other as a more normal
subjunctive? I had no problem understanding
from the context the first verb
was to be used as an imperative. Should that
have been enough to understand
the second verb was also being used as an
imperative?
Once again let me thank all those who might
respond and those responsible
for this web site. It is such a blessing to
be able to ask and learn from
others.
Merry Christmas to all.
Sola Gratia
jay adkins
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