[B-Greek] Did the shepherds believe? Luke 2:15

Rod Rogers rngrogers at embarqmail.com
Tue Dec 22 22:01:00 EST 2009


Jay, I'm not sure you got your second 
question answered. I did a search in Logos 
and found 11 verses where there are 2 
Subjunctive verbs (first person plural) 
within 5 words of KAI, Matthew 21:38; Mark 
15:32; Luke 2:15; John 6:30; John 11:16; 1 
Corinthians 15:32; 1 Thessalonians 5:6; 
Hebrews 4:16; 1 John 2:28; 1 John 5:2; 
Revelation 19:7. To make a long answer short, 
I think John 6:30; John 11:16; Mark 15:32; 
Hebrews 4:16; 1 John 5:2 answers your 
question. It appears that when the two 
Subjunctives are in their own clauses they 
are always translated as Hortatory 
Subjunctives. When the two Subjunctives are 
governed by a conjunction as hINA or hOTAN 
they are not translated as such. Hope this 
helps. I'm sure that if I have made a mistake 
someone will set it straight.

Rod Rogers




 ----- Original Message ----- 
From: Jay Adkins
To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 6:51 AM
Subject: [B-Greek] Did the shepherds believe? 
Luke 2:15


Dear BGreek,

Luke 2:15b DIELQWMEN DH EWS BHQLEEM KAI 
IDWMEN TO RHMA TOUTO YEYOVOS O hO
KURIOS EGNWRISEN HMIN

Let us go now to Bethlehem that we might see 
[if] this saying has happened
which the Lord has made known to us.

Let us go now to Bethlehem and see this thing 
that has happened which the
Lord has made known to us.

When I first translated I thought to add the 
[if] into the words of the
shepherds.  I did this due to the subjunctive 
of both verbs.  Since,
however, I found no support from other 
translations, I removed it.  And then
I change the term saying to thing and also 
removed that we might
replacing it with and so as to make a 
smoother English phrase and to agree
with the other translations.  Now I 
understand that the subjunctive can be
used for an imperative instead of potential 
action.  My question is what key
in the context is there here that I missed? 
How do we know for sure that
the shepherds believed the word of the angels 
or were in some doubt and
needed proof?  Secondly, in a construct such 
as this one, can one
subjunctive be used as an imperative and the 
other as a more normal
subjunctive?  I had no problem understanding 
from the context the first verb
was to be used as an imperative.  Should that 
have been enough to understand
the second verb was also being used as an 
imperative?

Once again let me thank all those who might 
respond and those responsible
for this web site.  It is such a blessing to 
be able to ask and learn from
others.

Merry Christmas to all.

Sola Gratia
jay adkins
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