[B-Greek] Pronunciation
Vasile STANCU
stancu at mail.dnttm.ro
Sun Dec 27 04:30:34 EST 2009
Louis,
Nice to hear from you such encouraging words. You say one needs to be careful not to listen to errors and reinforce them as a result; I fully agree. In fact, this is my strongest motivation in seeking and using a system which I am not to find some time later as „wrong” (relatively „wrong”, of course) and in need to be seriously reconsidered.
The link I indicated should be easy to access. If you try again and cannot get it, I can send you separately the files, as e-mail attachments; they are 1.6 MB (Genesis) + 615 KB (John) + 324 KB (1John).
Vasile
From: Louis Sorenson [mailto:llsorenson at hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 5:16 AM
To: Vasile Stancu; Mark Lightman; B-Greek List mail to all
Subject: [B-Greek] Pronunciation
Vasile,
Way to go. I think starting to create your own recordings is the way to go.
Marylin Phemister's suggestion was to record your own audio, and then
start listening to the audio of others. I agree that recording and listening
to one's own audio is a useful methodology. But one has to be careful
not to listen to errors so as to reinforce them.
The accents though should be considered sacrosanct - they remain the same
for the most part in modern Greek. I was unable to follow your link, though.
Perhaps you could repost them.
I got some emails from schola.org today which seems to suggest that one
can now participate in audio groups. This would be an interesting feat to
attempt in Greek. In Latin, I am not aware of the multitude of dialects
as in Greek. Perhaps Anatolian (Buthian) pronunciation people could
consider Erasmians as Doric (=Spartan and dominant). Even though we have
strong disagreements, even in the year 2009, there are apparently a
couple of enclaves of Doric speakers in Greece -- they just won't change.
Welcome to the world of audio. So how do you use the audios you have
created? I have yet to listen to my Mark recordings. I listen to
Buth's most of the time.
BTW, John Simon, of Greek-LatinAudio.com
sent me an email about his pronunciation scheme.
----Simon's explanation------------
My pronunciation is based on modern Greek with minor
variations. I do not attempt to duplicate it exactly, simply because
there are aspects of modern Greek pronunciation which I do not
care for, For example, its soft treatment of some consonants
and vowels, it's treatment of voiced consonantal clusters, etc.
In my humble opinion, ancient Greek would have had a more
succinct and vigorous rendition of such sounds. (Historical
linguistic observation suggests that languages undergo an
entropic softening and melding of sounds over lengthy exposure,
i.e., centuries/millenia. Greek and English are certainly good
examples of this... )
Bear also in mind that even if a standardized pronunciation of any
language is attempted, even by native speakers, variations,
regional and otherwise, are the order of the day and attempting
to nail a pronunication scheme down definitively is like chasing
partridges all over the landscape.
Regardless, my fundamental endeavor is to provide a sound which
native Greek speakers would understand clearly, whether or not it
reflects their particular regional sound characteristics or academic
preferences.
-----------END of Explanation-----
Louis Sorenson
Hi Vasile,
I found your site and the audio samples to be interesting, helpful,
and KALA. I would characterize your system as essentially
Erasmian with a few concessions to MG (B-V, AU-af.) As a result
I find your samples easier to understand and internalize than Buth or
MG, but maybe a little smoother, more flowing than say Phemister, though again
she remains my favorite as she is still the easiest for me to understand and like
you I have abandoned the standard of what is 'authentic," "natural"
or even "pleasing."
I note that you, like Rico, appear to shorten HTA to an e as in
"pet" in closed syllables, and you, as he does, sometimes do
this with omicron, "aw" as in "law" in at least some closed syllables.
I'm not going to criticize this as I never criticize anything having
to do with pronunciation, but I do wonder why you choose to do this.
It does lead to more homophones, which I continue to maintain are
the enemy of comprehension, though enemies which can be overcome.
I did not notice you differing from the standard accentuation
as it is taught in ancient Greek. Have I missed something?
Bottom line is that I have added your samples to my MP3 player
and I thank you for them. The dirty little secret of pronunciation is
that everyone would choose to do it a little differently, which is
another reason to avoid dogmaticsm on this issue. I like what you
have come up with.
Mark L
FWSFOROS MARKOS
--- On Thu, 12/24/09, Vasile STANCU <stancu at mail.dnttm.ro> wrote:
From: Vasile STANCU <stancu at mail.dnttm.ro>
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Pronunciation
To: "'A. J. Birch'" <AJB1212 at ono.com>, "'B-Greek'" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Thursday, December 24, 2009, 4:41 AM
Recently I have learned to abstain from declaring a certain system to be
better than another, let alone the idea of correctness. However, I would
like to share with you the way I understand to pronounce ancient Greek. This
is not the result of a rigorous research; rather, it is intended to be a
practical attempt to accomodate the sounds that I hear with today's Greek,
and the limitations set by the accentuation system and grammatical forms,
which should not be confused with each other, I believe, for the sake of
complying with one pronounciation system or another.
I have been long looking for a native Greek speaker who proposes a
pronounciation system other than modern Greek, but I believe there is no
such thing available for the time being.
There is a description of the pronounciation system that I am currently
using at this address: http://referinte-greaca.xhost.ro/index-en.htm. In the
same material I have placed some audio samples recorded by myself: Genesis
1:1-2:3 (ancient Greek), John 3:1-16 (ancient Greek) and 1John 1:1-7 (modern
Greek).
Vasile Stancu
-----Original Message-----
From: b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of A. J. Birch
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 10:18 AM
To: B-Greek
Subject: [B-Greek] Pronunciation
Dear 'B-Greekers',
Nikolaos Adamou wrote,
"There is another audio with more attention to the accents in:
http://www.greeklatinaudio.com/
http://www.helding.net/greeklatinaudio/greek/matthew/MAT01G.mp3
Although the voice is still not natural..."
In an effort to move from the Erasmian pronunciation that I was 'brought up
on' to something more like 'real Greek', I've been listening to the John
Simon recordings and adapting my pronunciation to his. What do those of you
who know more about this than I do think of the Simon recordings - his
pronunciation, etc.? Is there something better 'out there'?
Thankyou,
Andrew J. Birch
Palma de Mallorca, Spain
---
B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
B-Greek mailing list
B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
________________________________________
Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. Get it now.
More information about the B-Greek
mailing list