[B-Greek] Pronunciation

Vasile STANCU stancu at mail.dnttm.ro
Sun Dec 27 04:30:34 EST 2009


Louis,

Nice to hear from you such encouraging words. You say one needs to be careful not to listen to errors and reinforce them as a result; I fully agree. In fact, this is my strongest motivation in seeking and using a system which I am not to find some time later as „wrong” (relatively „wrong”, of course) and in need to be seriously reconsidered.

The link I indicated should be easy to access. If you try again and cannot get it, I can send you separately the files, as e-mail attachments; they are 1.6 MB (Genesis) + 615 KB (John) + 324 KB (1John).

Vasile


From: Louis Sorenson [mailto:llsorenson at hotmail.com] 
Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 5:16 AM
To: Vasile Stancu; Mark Lightman; B-Greek List mail to all
Subject: [B-Greek] Pronunciation

Vasile,



Way to go. I think starting to create your own recordings is the way to go.

Marylin Phemister's suggestion was to record your own audio, and then 

start listening to the audio of others. I agree that recording and listening 

to one's own audio is a useful methodology.  But one has to be careful 

not to listen to errors so as to reinforce them. 

The accents though should be considered sacrosanct - they remain the same

for the most part in modern Greek.  I was unable to follow your link, though.

Perhaps you could repost them.



I got some emails from schola.org today which seems to suggest that one

can now participate in audio groups. This would be an interesting feat to

attempt in Greek. In Latin, I am not aware of the multitude of dialects 

as in Greek.  Perhaps Anatolian (Buthian) pronunciation people could 

consider Erasmians as Doric (=Spartan and dominant). Even though we have

strong disagreements, even in the year 2009, there are apparently a 

couple of enclaves of Doric speakers in Greece -- they just won't change.



Welcome to the world of audio. So how do you use the audios you have 

created?  I have yet to listen to my Mark recordings. I listen to 

Buth's most of the time.



BTW, John Simon, of Greek-LatinAudio.com

 sent me an email about his pronunciation scheme.



----Simon's explanation------------



My pronunciation is based on modern Greek with minor

variations. I do not attempt to duplicate it exactly, simply because

there are aspects of modern Greek pronunciation which I do not

care for,   For example, its soft treatment of some consonants

and vowels, it's treatment of voiced consonantal clusters, etc. 

In my humble opinion, ancient Greek would have had a more

succinct and vigorous rendition of such sounds.  (Historical

linguistic observation suggests that languages undergo an

entropic softening and melding of sounds over lengthy exposure,

i.e., centuries/millenia.  Greek and English are certainly good

examples of this... )

 

Bear also in mind that even if a standardized pronunciation of any

language is attempted, even by native speakers, variations,

regional and otherwise, are the order of the day and attempting

to nail a pronunication scheme down definitively is like chasing

partridges all over the landscape.

 

Regardless, my fundamental endeavor is to provide a sound which

native Greek speakers would understand clearly, whether or not it

reflects their particular regional sound characteristics or academic

preferences.

-----------END of Explanation-----





Louis Sorenson



















Hi Vasile,

 

I found your site and the audio samples to be interesting, helpful,

and KALA.  I would characterize your system as essentially

Erasmian with a few concessions to MG (B-V, AU-af.)  As a result

I find your samples easier to understand and internalize than Buth or

MG, but maybe a little smoother, more flowing than say Phemister, though again

she remains my favorite as she is still the easiest for me to understand and like

you I have abandoned the standard of what is 'authentic," "natural"

or even "pleasing."

 

I note that you, like Rico, appear to shorten HTA to an e as in

"pet" in closed syllables, and you, as he does, sometimes do

this with omicron, "aw" as in "law" in at least some closed syllables.

I'm not going to criticize this as I never criticize anything having

to do with pronunciation, but I do wonder why you choose to do this.

It does lead to more homophones, which I continue to maintain are

the enemy of comprehension, though enemies which can be overcome.

 

I did not notice you differing from the standard accentuation

as it is taught in ancient Greek.  Have I missed something?

 

Bottom line is that I have added your samples to my MP3 player

and I thank you for them.  The dirty little secret of pronunciation is

that everyone would choose to do it a little differently, which is

another reason to avoid dogmaticsm on this issue.  I like what you

have come up with.  



Mark L





FWSFOROS MARKOS



--- On Thu, 12/24/09, Vasile STANCU <stancu at mail.dnttm.ro> wrote:





From: Vasile STANCU <stancu at mail.dnttm.ro>

Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Pronunciation

To: "'A. J. Birch'" <AJB1212 at ono.com>, "'B-Greek'" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>

Date: Thursday, December 24, 2009, 4:41 AM





Recently I have learned to abstain from declaring a certain system to be

better than another, let alone the idea of correctness. However, I would

like to share with you the way I understand to pronounce ancient Greek. This

is not the result of a rigorous research; rather, it is intended to be a

practical attempt to accomodate the sounds that I hear with today's Greek,

and the limitations set by the accentuation system and grammatical forms,

which should not be confused with each other, I believe, for the sake of

complying with one pronounciation system or another.



I have been long looking for a native Greek speaker who proposes a

pronounciation system other than modern Greek, but I believe there is no

such thing available for the time being.



There is a description of the pronounciation system that I am currently

using at this address: http://referinte-greaca.xhost.ro/index-en.htm. In the

same material I have placed some audio samples recorded by myself: Genesis

1:1-2:3 (ancient Greek), John 3:1-16 (ancient Greek) and 1John 1:1-7 (modern

Greek).



Vasile Stancu



-----Original Message-----

From: b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org

[mailto:b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of A. J. Birch

Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 10:18 AM

To: B-Greek

Subject: [B-Greek] Pronunciation



Dear 'B-Greekers',



Nikolaos Adamou wrote,

"There is another audio with more attention to the accents in:

http://www.greeklatinaudio.com/

http://www.helding.net/greeklatinaudio/greek/matthew/MAT01G.mp3

Although the voice is still not natural..."



In an effort to move from the Erasmian pronunciation that I was 'brought up

on' to something more like 'real Greek', I've been listening to the John

Simon recordings and adapting my pronunciation to his. What do those of you

who know more about this than I do think of the Simon recordings - his

pronunciation, etc.? Is there something better 'out there'?



Thankyou,



Andrew J. Birch

Palma de Mallorca, Spain

---

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