[B-Greek] Mark 12:38-40
Iver Larsen
iver_larsen at sil.org
Sat Jan 3 01:30:14 EST 2009
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Moore" <tom at katabiblon.com>
To: "Carl W. Conrad" <cwconrad2 at mac.com>; "Paul O'Rear" <paorear at microsoft.com>
Cc: <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: 2. januar 2009 22:12
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Mark 12:38-40
>I was thinking about how I would (in English) caution against certain people. Likely I wouldn't say
>"beware the politicians who...." In some contexts I might say "Beware those preachers who...."
>Usually, I would probably just leave off the article: "Beware people who...."
>
> In Greek, does the presence of the article (that it says APO TWN GRAMMATEWN TWN QELONTWN instead
> of APO GRAMMATEWN QELONTWN) make any difference to deciding whether to understand this passage as
> a rhetorical generalization ("beware the scribes, who...") vs. a specific subclass ("beware
> scribes who...")?
>
> Regards,
> Tom Moore
It is an interesting question, and I don't know if the grammars deal with the issue or where to look
for information about it.
It was Paul O'Rear who suggested that the participle - functioning as a relative clause - is
restrictive:
>> >However, from my reading of the Greek syntax, TWN GRAMMATEWN TWN QELONTWN … would essentially
>> be a restrictive attributive participle use.
Carl responded:
> I don't think there's anything necessarily restrictive in the TWN QELONTWN ... participial clause,
> such that we ought to read it "those of the scribes who want ... "
I want to cite a few similar texts and see if we can draw any conclusions from them:
Mat 10:6: πορεύεσθε δὲ μᾶλλον πρὸς τὰ πρόβατα τὰ ἀπολωλότα οἴκου Ἰσραήλ
POREUESQE DE MALLON PROS TA PROBATA TA APOLWLOTA OIKOU ISRAHL.
The participle here seems to be descriptive rather than restrictive. Don't go to the Gentiles but to
the Israelites, who are described as being lost.
Mat 11:21: εἰ ἐν Τύρῳ καὶ Σιδῶνι ἐγένοντο αἱ δυνάμεις αἱ γενόμεναι ἐν ὑμῖν
EI EN TURWi KAI SIDWNI EGENONTO hAI DUNAMEIS hAI GENOMENAI EN hUMIN
Mat 15:27: τὰ κυνάρια ἐσθίει ἀπὸ τῶν ψιχίων τῶν πιπτόντων ἀπὸ τῆς τραπέζης τῶν κυρίων αὐτῶν
TA KUNARIA ESQIEI APO TWN YICIWN TWN PIPTONTWN APO THS TRAPEZHS TWN KURIWN AUTWN
Mat 21:9 οἱ δὲ ὄχλοι οἱ προάγοντες αὐτὸν καὶ οἱ ἀκολουθοῦντες ἔκραζον
hOI DE OCLOI hOI PROAGONTES AUTON KAI hOI AKOLOUQOUNTES EKRAZON
Mat 21:15 ἰδόντες δὲ οἱ ἀρχιερεῖς καὶ οἱ γραμματεῖς τὰ θαυμάσια ἃ ἐποίησεν καὶ τοὺς παῖδας τοὺς
κράζοντας ἐν τῷ ἱερῷ ... ἠγανάκτησαν
IDONTES DE hOI ARCIEREIS KAI hOI GRAMMATEIS TA QAUMASIA hA EPOIHSEN KAI TOUS PAIDAS TOUS KRAZONTAS
EN TWi hIERWi ... HGANAKTHSAN
Mat 27:44 οἱ λῃσταὶ οἱ συσταυρωθέντες σὺν αὐτῷ ὠνείδιζον αὐτόν
hOI LHiSTAI hOI SUSTAURWQENTES SUN AUTWi WNEIDIZON AUTON
Luk 9:32 εἶδον τὴν δόξαν αὐτοῦ καὶ τοὺς δύο ἄνδρας τοὺς συνεστῶτας αὐτῷ
EIDON THN DOXAN AUTOU KAI TOUS DUO ANDRAS TOUS SUNESTWTAS AUTWi
Luk 10:23 Μακάριοι οἱ ὀφθαλμοὶ οἱ βλέποντες ἃ βλέπετε
MAKARIOI hOI OFQALMOI hOI BLEPONTES hA\ BLEPETE
Luk 13:4 δοκεῖτε ὅτι αὐτοὶ ὀφειλέται ἐγένοντο παρὰ πάντας τοὺς ἀνθρώπους τοὺς κατοικοῦντας
Ἰερουσαλήμ;
DOKEITE hOTI AUTOI OFEILETAI EGENONTO PARA PANTAS TOUS ANQRWPOUS TOUS KATOIKOUNTAS IEROUSALHM?
Luk 22:63 Καὶ οἱ ἄνδρες οἱ συνέχοντες αὐτὸν ἐνέπαιζον αὐτῷ
KAI hOI ANDRES hOI SUNECONTES AUTON ENEPAIZON AUTWi
Luk 23:49 γυναῖκες αἱ συνακολουθοῦσαι αὐτῷ ἀπὸ τῆς Γαλιλαίας
GUNAIKES hAI SUNAKOLOUQOUSAI AUTWi APO THS GALILAIAS
(some) women who had come along with him from the Galilean (land)
Act 9:7 οἱ δὲ ἄνδρες οἱ συνοδεύοντες αὐτῷ εἱστήκεισαν ἐνεοί
hOI DE ANDRES hOI SUNODEUONTES AUTWi EISTHKEISAN ENEOI
Act 10:40-41 ἔδωκεν αὐτὸν ἐμφανῆ γενέσθαι, 41 οὐ παντὶ τῷ λαῷ ἀλλὰ μάρτυσιν τοῖς
προκεχειροτονημένοις ὑπὸ τοῦ θεοῦ
EDWKEN AUTON EMFANH GENESQAI OU PANTI TWi LAWi ALLA MARTUSIN TOIS PROKECEIROTONHMENOIS hUPO TOU QEOU
As in Luk 23:49 there is no definite article before the noun (MARTUSIN). It does not seem to be the
case that the presence or absence of the article before the noun indicates whether the participle is
meant to be descriptive or restrictive.
Will the use of a demonstrative indicate a more restrictive sense? I only found one noun with a
demonstrative combined with a participle:
Luk 19:27 πλὴν τοὺς ἐχθρούς μου τούτους τοὺς μὴ θελήσαντάς με βασιλεῦσαι ἐπ᾽ αὐτοὺς ἀγάγετε ὧδε
PLHN TOUS ECQROUS MOU TOUTOUS TOUS MH QELHSANTAS ME BASILEUSAI EP' AUTOUS AGAGETE WDE
As far as I can see the demonstrative is deictic, pointing to certain people present, and it is not
used to restrict the participle.
So, it looks like the grammar does not tell us whether to take a participle as restrictive or
descriptive in Greek. Adding commas is a question of interpretation and context, not grammar.
Iver Larsen
More information about the B-Greek
mailing list