[B-Greek] Cherry Tree?

George F Somsel gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Mon Jul 20 12:25:51 EDT 2009


I don't find the problem worth much time.  If you really need some mental topic to occupy your time, how about "What is the meaning of life?"
 george
gfsomsel 


… search for truth, hear truth, 
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, 
defend the truth till death.


- Jan Hus
_________ 



----- Original Message ----
From: Richard Ghilardi <qodeshlayhvh at juno.com>
To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2009 9:07:57 AM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Cherry Tree?

Hi George,

The transliteration is adequate and accurately reflects the Greek letters
used by the editor. No transcription (by which I suppose you mean
'Unicode') is necessary. I considered the possibility that the editor
meant to print LOXMH rather than LOXNH. But I dismissed it because of
what I took the other major elements of the sentence to mean. I thought
that TREFEI = 'feeds' and ERIQAKOYS = 'robins'. So the proverb would run
in English as,

'A single *thicket* cannot supply two robins with food.' 

This seems absurd to me. Why couldn't a thicket or copse supply hundreds
of berries and hundreds of insects for the birds? But perhaps I'm wrong
about the meaning of TREFEI and ERIQAKOYS. The former may mean 'provide
living space' and the latter 'jays'. If so, the proverb might then be
Englished as,

'A single thicket does not provide (enough) living space for two
(squabbling) jays.'

But ERIQAKOS can't mean 'jay', cf. LSJ, and robins are not known for
squabbling. And it's a real stretch for TREFW to mean, 'provide living
space for'.

The translation given by the editor doesn't make good sense in English:

'One cherry tree will not hold two jays.'

This sentence would ordinarily be taken to mean that the birds are too
heavy or too big to live in the tree. This also is absurd.

Yours in His grace,

Richard Ghilardi - qodeshlayhvh at juno.com
West Haven, Connecticut USA

=========================================================================
===========

On Sun, 19 Jul 2009 23:16:47 -0700 (PDT) George F Somsel
<gfsomsel at yahoo.com> writes:
> 
> You have me at somewhat of a disadvantage since what you have given 
> is a transliteration alone rather than accompanying it by a 
> transcription.  I would be more confident if I were to see the 
> actual Greek.  I suspect that LOXNH is a slight corruption of 
> ???µ? LOXMH with a mu --> nu shift.  That would be a 
> "thicket."  What would seem to be going on is that he is not giving 
> an overly literal translation, but attempting to improve it for the 
> English-speaking audience.
>  george
> gfsomsel 
> 
> 
> … search for truth, hear truth, 
> learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, 
> defend the truth till death.
> 
> 
> - Jan Hus
> _________ 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Richard Ghilardi <qodeshlayhvh at juno.com>
> To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 11:50:21 PM
> Subject: [B-Greek] Cherry Tree?
> 
> Hello Folks,
> 
> In his collection of ancient Greek proverbs appropriately titled, 
> ARXAIES
> ELLHNIKES PAROIMIES, D. S. Baker has the following:
> 
> MIA LOXNH OU TREFEI DYO ERIQAKOYS.
> MIA KERASIA DEN TREFEI DYO KISSES. (DHMOTIKH)
> One cherry tree will not hold two jays.
> 
> Baker says that this proverb is anonymous.
> The English appears to be an accurate translation of the Modern 
> Greek.
> But I don't see how either of them could be a translation of the 
> ancient
> tongue. The verbs are all correct. Both Greeks are present and the
> English is future, but that's OK in rendering proverbs. The problem 
> is
> with the subject and object.
> 
> First of all, LOXNH is not to be found in LSJ. Is this a Greek word? 
> What
> does it mean? The Greek for 'cherry tree' is, of course, KERASEA and
> KERASIA or KERASOS and KERASION. Does LOXNH exist in some other 
> Greek
> lexicon? 
> 
> Secondly, ERIQAKOS doesn't mean 'jay' or KISSA. LSJ defines it as
> 'robin-redbreast' 'Erithacus rubecula', an entirely different 
> species.
> 
> Can anyone explain to me what's going on here?
> 
> Yours in His grace,
> 
> Richard Ghilardi - qodeshlayhvh at juno.com
> West Haven, Connecticut USA
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