[B-Greek] Galatians 1:6-7
Steve Runge
srunge at logos.com
Wed Jun 10 12:21:48 EDT 2009
Charles,
I did a series of blog posts a while back to draw out the semantic differences between ALLA and EI MI. Here is the link to the one that describes the distinction:
http://www.ntdiscourse.org/tag/point-counterpoint/
Hope this helps with your processing of Gal. 1.6-7.
Steven Runge, DLitt (Biblical Languages)
Scholar-in-Residence
Logos Research Systems, Inc.
http://www.logos.com/academic/bio/runge
http://www.logos.com/ldgnt
-----Original Message-----
From: b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Charles Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 5:54 AM
To: Donald COBB
Cc: B Greek
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Galatians 1:6-7
Thanks to Donald, George, and Elizabeth for the interaction. I think I understand the flow of thought better. Particularly helpful was Elizabeth's tidbit that EI MH follows a negative, a requirement that QAUMAZW does not meet. I'm starting to appreciate being wrong; I always seem to learn something from it.
Charlie Johnson
On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 3:41 AM, Donald COBB <docobb at orange.fr> wrote:
> Dear George,
>
> Far be it from me to lop off your neck! (or your head, for that
> matter!)
>
> I do have a little difficulty following your interpretation, though.
> EUAGGELION without the article, in a different case and separated from
> the participle, has little to commend to itself as the subject.
> Especially with hO OUK ESTIN ALLO, Paul's thought seems to run
> smoothly: the Galatians have turned to another gospel which is, in fact "not another 'Gospel'" at all.
> How would you take the hO OUK ESTIN ALLO?
>
> Paul uses the verbe KALEW three other times in Galatians; in two of
> those occurences the subject is clearly God. The first comes just a
> few verses later, in ch. 1:
>
> Gal 1:15: Ὅτε δὲ εὐδόκησεν [ὁ θεὸς] ὁ ἀφορίσας με ἐκ κοιλίας μητρός
> μου καὶ καλέσας διὰ τῆς χάριτος αὐτοῦ, hOTE DE EUDOKHSEN [hO QEOS] hO
> AFORISAS ME EK KOILIAS MHTROS MOU KAI KALESAS DIA THS CARITOS AUTOU.
>
> Gal 5:7: Ἐτρέχετε καλῶς· τίς ὑμᾶς ἐνέκοψεν [τῇ] ἀληθείᾳ μὴ πείθεσθαι;
> 8 ἡ πεισμονὴ οὐκ ἐκ τοῦ καλοῦντος ὑμᾶς, ETRECETE KALWS· TIS hUMAS
> ENEKOYEN [THi] ALHQEIAi MH PEIQESQAI; hH PEISMONH OUK EK TOU KALOUNTOS
> hUMAS.
>
> In neither of these cases is the subject explicitly QEOS (unless the
> vl is retained for 1:15), but I would have a hard time convincing
> myself that it could be the Gospel (the third occurence is 5:15,
> passive voice). Outside Galatians, when Paul uses the verb in the
> active voice in similar contexts, if the subjet is specified or can be
> discerned from the context, it's always QEOS. It's often in the
> passive, which should probably be construed as a "passivum divinum".
>
> 2 Th 2:14 is an interesting confirmation: εἰς ὃ [καὶ] ἐκάλεσεν ὑμᾶς
> διὰ τοῦ εὐαγγελίου ἡμῶν εἰς περιποίησιν δόξης τοῦ κυρίου ἡμῶν Ἰησοῦ
> Χριστοῦ, EIS hO [KAI] EKALESEN hUMAS DIA TOU EUAGGELIOU hHMWN EIS
> PERIPOIHSIN DOXHS TOU KURIOU hHMWN IHSOU CRISTOU.
>
> The Gospel in this verse is the means of the calling, not the subjet.
>
> Blessings,
>
> Donald Cobb
> Aix-en-Provence
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "George F Somsel"
> <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>
> To: "Charles Johnson" <cpj5117 at gmail.com>; "B Greek"
> <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 8:23 AM
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Galatians 1:6-7
>
>
> 6Θαυμάζω ὅτι οὕτως ταχέως μετατίθεσθε ἀπὸ τοῦ καλέσαντος ὑμᾶς ἐν
> χάριτι
>> [Χριστοῦ]εἰς ἕτερον εὐαγγέλιον, 7ὃ οὐκ ἔστιν ἄλλο, εἰ μή τινές εἰσιν
>> οἱ
>>
>> ταράσσοντες ὑμᾶς καὶ θέλοντες μεταστρέψαι τὸ εὐαγγέλιον τοῦ Χριστοῦ.
>>
>> QAUMAZW hOTI hOUTWS TAXEWS METATIQESQE APO TOU KALESANTOS hUMAS EN
>> XARITI [XRISTOU] EIS hETERON EUAGGELION. 7 hO OUK ESTIN ALLO, EI MH
>> TINES EISIN hOI TARASSONTES hUMAS KAI QELONTES METASTREYAI TO EUAGGELION TOU XRISTOU.
>>
>> I have a slightly different take on this from the normal. It is usual
>> to supply the subject here as being [in the AV tradition] God.
>> Therefore καλέσαντος KALESANTOS is generally construed as a aor masc
>> gen sg part, but it could also be a aor neuter gen sg part. In that
>> case, what would be the subject? The neut noun εὐαγγέλιον EUAGGELION
>> ! Although one must also understand τοῦ εὐαγγελίου TOU EUAGGELIOU in
>> the gen abs as one must understand τοῦ θεοῦ TOU QEOU in the usual
>> understanding of the passage, the word is already right there to be
>> brought to mind. Also, εἰ μή might be understood after the manner of
>> the English "unless" which is really very similar to "except." The
>> sense would then be that he is surprised that they are forsaking the
>> GOSPEL WHICH CALLED them into Christ's favor for another gospel. He
>> is surprised UNLESS some persons are disturbing them by trying to
>> alter the gospel itself.
>>
>> I've attempted to avoid coming out and giving an actual translation
>> though I realize that it is very close to being one. Hopefully this
>> will make some sense.
>> george
>> gfsomsel
>>
>>
>> … search for truth, hear truth,
>> learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, defend the
>> truth till death.
>>
>>
>> - Jan Hus
>> _________
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Charles Johnson <cpj5117 at gmail.com>
>> To: B Greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2009 3:22:10 PM
>> Subject: [B-Greek] Galatians 1:6-7
>>
>> I have a question about how certain clauses are connected in
>> Galatians 1:6-7. I'm looking particularly at the clause in v.7 beginning with ει μη.
>> Many versions seem to render it as a subordinate clause under ο ουκ
>> εστιν αλλο. Leedy's NT diagrams in Bibleworks agree. I see that
>> several versions indicate that relationship and some others appear to be more ambiguous.
>> So,
>> understanding that I'm probably wrong, I thought I would propose an
>> alternate solution.
>>
>> I cannot make good logical sense out of "which is not another
>> [gospel], except there are some who trouble you...." I further
>> struggle with the idea of placing a subordinate clause under what
>> appears to be a parenthetical statement. Rather, would it be possible
>> to connect the ει μη back to θαυμαζω in v. 6? The distinctive force
>> of ει μη as "except" makes good sense in this arrangement. The
>> paraphrase would be as follows:
>>
>> "I [would be] amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called
>> you by the grace of Christ for a different gospel (not that there is
>> another), except [I know] there are some who trouble you...."
>>
>> The words in brackets are my amplifications. In other words, Paul is
>> saying he would be amazed except that he knows about this dangerous
>> threat. Using the naked indicative in the main clause highlights his
>> amazement. Is my idea a possibility?
>> ---
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>>
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