[B-Greek] INA + Subjunctive Substantival Clause?
Margaret Sim
margaret_sim at sil.org
Mon Jun 15 09:23:37 EDT 2009
Steve Timothy and B-Greek listers,
Yes, I have noticed that when hINA follows a stative clause (with or without
TOUTO) it may be seen as drawing attention cataphorically to a statement.
This seems to me rather like cleft sentences (or perhaps pseudo-cleft
sentences) in English such as 'It was John who helped me'. Examples in the
NT would include:
John 4:34, 6:29, 39,40, 15:8, 12, 13, 17. Johannine writings are noted for
this, but Epictetus does it also! I think it reflects what the speaker or
writer thinks should be done. hINA is then doing duty as a marker to alert
the reader to this attitude and also to make it more salient.
Margaret Sim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Runge" <srunge at logos.com>
To: "Margaret Sim" <margaret_sim at sil.org>; "Timothy Mitchell"
<taztimmitchell at hotmail.com>; <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 4:41 PM
Subject: RE: [B-Greek] INA + Subjunctive Substantival Clause?
> Margaret,
>
> I was wondering if you had correlated the use of hINA as indicating the
> attitude of the subject with its function as the target of a cataphoric or
> forward-point reference from a demonstrative like TOUTO in Phil 1:9. We
> often use cataphoric references in English to highlight an entire
> proposition that follows, e.g.:
> *Here's* the deal:
> *This* is my point:
> In such instances, we connect the following proposition using asyndeton in
> English, not with a complementizer like "that." However, punctuation is
> used to indicate the connection of the following clause to the
> forward-pointing reference, using a colon as with my two examples.
>
> Timothy,
>
> In Koine Greek, most targets of the forward-pointing references are marked
> using either hOTI or hINA. I describe the use of demonstrative and
> interrogatives for forward-pointing references (aka proleptic or
> kataphoric usage in Wallace) in an introductory discourse grammar that is
> about to be released. I had not followed up on the use of hINA versus
> hOTI. It would be interesting to see how many of the non-purpose uses of
> hINA fall into this category, marking the subject's attitude.
>
> Chapter 3 covers forward-pointing references, and is part of a sample
> portion of the grammar that is available for download here
> (forward-pointing reference):-)
> http://www.ntdiscourse.org/docs/Discourse%20grammar%20sample.pdf
>
> Regards,
>
> Steve Runge
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
> [mailto:b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Margaret Sim
> Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 4:41 AM
> To: Timothy Mitchell; b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] INA + Subjunctive Substantival Clause?
>
> Timothy and Carl,
> Thank you Carl for the mention! Timothy you have to look at INA in a new
> light: not as introducing a purpose clause, but as indicating the attitude
> of the subject of the main verb. Of course in about 60% of the occurrences
> in the NT it may introduce a purpose clause but often it alerts the reader
> to expect a clause which outlines what the subject wants, prays for or
> urges someone to do. It seems to me that this is a more transparent and
> intuitively satifying approach than to slot the clause in as a
> 'substantival direct object'. In the passage in Philippians it introduces
> what Paul is praying for: the content if you like of his prayer, but more
> fundamentally it is introducing speaker/writer attitude. The subjunctive
> is often used for this in European languages.
> In contrast the clause which begins EIS TO DOKIMAZEIN does indicate the
> goal expected or hoped for. I'll stop there as I do not want to bore you
> on the subject of this very interesting particle! Incidentally in pagan
> Greek Epictetus uses it in a very similar manner to the NT writers, and
> often to introduce an independent clause which cannot then indicate
> purpose.
>
> Yours,
>
> Margaret Sim
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Timothy Mitchell" <taztimmitchell at hotmail.com>
> To: <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 7:35 AM
> Subject: [B-Greek] INA + Subjunctive Substantival Clause?
>
>
>>
>> If any one could help clear this up for me, that would be great.
>>
>> I have been looking at Philippians 1:9-11 a lot recently and have been
>> trying to figure out the IVA + Subjunctive clauses. First, here is the
>> passage.
>>
>> 9 Καὶ τοῦτο προσεύχομαι, ἵνα ἡ ἀγάπη ὑμῶν ἔτι μᾶλλον καὶ μᾶλλον περισσεύῃ
>> ἐν ἐπιγνώσει καὶ πάσῃ αἰσθήσει
>> 10 εἰς τὸ δοκιμάζειν ὑμᾶς τὰ διαφέροντα, ἵνα ἦτε εἰλικρινεῖς καὶ
>> ἀπρόσκοποι εἰς ἡμέραν Χριστοῦ,
>> 11 πεπληρωμένοι καρπὸν δικαιοσύνης τὸν διὰ Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ εἰς δόξαν καὶ
>> ἔπαινον θεοῦ.
>>
>>
>> 9 KAI TOUTO PROSEUCOMAI IVA H AGAPH UMWN ETI MALLON KAI MALLOV PERISSEUHi
>> EV EPIGNWSEI KAI PASHi AISFHSEI
>> 10 EIS TO DOKIMAZEIV UMAS TA DIAFERONTA IVA HTE EILIKRIVEIS KAI
>> APROSKOPOI
>> EIS HMERAN XRISTOU
>> 11 PEPLHRWMEVOI KARPON DIKAISUNHS TON DIA IHSOU XRISTOU EIS DOXAN KAI
>> EPAINON QEOU
>>
>>
>> I am not confused at the use of TOUTO (τοῦτο) in 1:9, I see it as the
>> direct object of the verb PROSEUCOMAI (προσεύχομαι). But I am confused at
>> the IVA + Subjunctive PERISSEUHi (περισσεύῃ) in 1:9. I am taking it as a
>> substantival direct object of PROSEUCOMAI (προσεύχομαι), am I right on
>> this?
>> Concerning the second IVA + Subjunctive in 1:10, IVA HTE (ἵνα ἦτε), is it
>> the "purpose" clause of HTE (ἦτε), or is it also another substantival
>> direct object clause of PROSEUCOMAI (προσεύχομαι)?
>>
>> Thanks for any responses,
>> Tim
>>
>>
>>
>>
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