[B-Greek] 1Cor. 11:4 "something on his head"
Sarah Madden
sarah.r.madden at gmail.com
Sat Sep 5 15:54:10 EDT 2009
Larry --
On second thought, I would categorize EXWN as an adverbial participle
("e.g., "while having ..."), thus -- in a diagram of the verse -- EXWN would
go on a terrace below the participles PROSEUCOMENOS and PROFHTEUWN. However,
the answer to Larry's question about why ECWN is masculine would still be
the same; the ECWN is masculine because of the ANHR, but would not be an
adjectival participle as I first posited.
1 Cor 11:4 PAS ANHR PROSEUCOMENOS H PROFHTEUWN KATA KEFALHS ECWN
KATAISCUNEI THN KEFALHN OUTOU.
For those interested in an easy tutorial (and it's free and well done, and
more like a game) on diagramming Greek, go to www.lexelsoftware.com for
KoineWorks Diagramming.
Sarah
Maryland
On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 1:48 PM, Lawrence Carmichael <
lawrencecarmichael at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Makes good sense to me.
>
> thanks,
>
> Larry Carmichael
> CA
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Sarah Madden <sarah.r.madden at gmail.com>
> *To:* Lawrence Carmichael <lawrencecarmichael at yahoo.com>
> *Cc:* Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com>; b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> *Sent:* Saturday, September 5, 2009 10:15:15 AM
>
> *Subject:* Re: [B-Greek] 1Cor. 11:4 "something on his head"
>
> Larry --
>
> In 1 Cor 11:4, wouldn't EXWN be referring back to the subject of the
> sentence (ANHR), and thus be masculine? If I were diagramming this sentence
> in Greek, I would place ECWN on a terrace below ANHR if I'm understanding
> this currectly and KATA KEFALHS as the direct object of ECWN. Just a
> thought.
>
> PAS ANHR PROSEUCOMENOS H PROFHTEUWN KATA KEFALHS ECWN KATAISCUNEI THN
> KEFALHN OUTOU.
>
> Sarah Madden
> Maryland
>
> On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 12:06 PM, Lawrence Carmichael <
> lawrencecarmichael at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> After re-reading your answer, I'm even more appreciative of it.
>>
>> In Esther 6:12 the LXX uses KATA KEPHALHS to translate "head covered".
>>
>> If you could bear with me for one more question? ECWN is a masculine
>> participle. If KEPHALHS is feminine, why is ECWN masculine?
>>
>> Does it agree with the understood "something"?
>> Does it agree with something else?
>> Did I just plain miss the obvious?
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Larry Carmichael
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com>
>> To: Lawrence Carmichael <lawrencecarmichael at yahoo.com>
>> Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>> Sent: Saturday, September 5, 2009 2:45:30 AM
>> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] 1Cor. 11:4 "something on his head"
>>
>>
>> On Sep 4, 2009, at 10:14 AM, Lawrence Carmichael wrote:
>>
>> > English translations insert the idea of "something" into the text. One
>> commentator said it was "understood"' Is there any reason "KATA KEPHALES
>> ECHON" can't be translated "having his head down"?
>>
>>
>> Yes, there is. KEFALHS is genitive; it cannot be the object of ECWN; as a
>> genitive it is governed by the preposition KATA.
>> To be the object of ECWN , the word KEFALH would have to be in the
>> accusative case. Moreover, there's no instance of KATA used independently as
>> an adverb
>>
>> KATA with the genitive, when it does not mean "against," means "down
>> FROM."
>>
>> Text:
>> 1Cor. 11:4 πᾶς ἀνὴρ προσευχόμενος ἢ προφητεύων κατὰ κεφαλῆς ἔχων
>> καταισχύνει τὴν κεφαλὴν αὐτοῦ.
>> 1Cor. 11:4 PAS ANHR PROSEUCOMENOS H PROFHTEUWN KATA KEFALHS ECWN
>> KATAISCUNEI THN KEFALHN AUTOU.
>>
>> Here's the relevant entry from BDAG:
>>
>> 1. marker of extension or orientation in space or specific area
>> a. of location that is relatively lower, down from someth. (Hom. et
>> al.; LXX; Ath. 1, 4 κ. κόρρης προπηλακίζειν [KORRHS PRPHLAKIZEIN] =t o smack
>> on one side of the head) ὁρμᾶν κ. τοῦ κρημνοῦ [hORMAN KATA TOU KRHMNOU] rush
>> down (from) the bank (cp. Polyb. 38, 16, 7 κ. τῶν κρημνῶν ῥίπτειν; [TWN
>> KRHMNWN hRIPTEIN] Jos., Bell. 1, 313) Mt 8:32; Mk 5:13; Lk 8:33. κ. κεφαλῆς
>> ἔχειν [KATA KEFALHS ECEIN] have someth. on one’s head (lit. hanging down fr.
>> the head, as a veil. Cp. Plut., Mor. 200f ἐβάδιζε κ. τῆς κεφαλῆς ἔχων τὸ
>> ἱμάτιον [EBADIZE KATA THS KEFALHS ECWN TO hIMATION].; Mitt-Wilck. I/2, 499,
>> 5 of a mummy ἔχων τάβλαν κ. τοῦ τραχήλου [ECWN TABLAN KATA TOU TRACHLOU]) 1
>> Cor 11:4.
>>
>> And here's the relevant entry from Louw & Nida:
>>
>> 49.16 κατακαλύπτομαι [KATAKALUPTOMAI]; κατὰ κεφαλῆς ἔχω [KATA KEFALHS ECW]
>> [(an idiom, literally ‘to have down on the head’): to wear a covering over
>> one’s head — ‘to have one’s head covered, to cover one’s head.’
>> κατακαλύπτομαι: εἰ γὰρ οὐ κατακαλύπτεται γυνή [KATAKALUPTOMAI: EI GAR OU
>> KATAKALUPTETAI GUNH] ‘for if a woman does not have her head covered’ 1Cor
>> 11:6.
>> κατὰ κεφαλῆς ἔχω [: πᾶς ἀνὴρ προσευχόμενος ἢ προφητεύων κατὰ κεφαλῆς ἔχων
>> [PAS ANHR PROSEUCOMENOS H PROFHTEUWN KATA KEFALHS ECWN] ‘any man who prays
>> or prophesies with his head covered’ 1Cor 11:4
>>
>> Carl W. Conrad
>> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> Sarah ><>
> sarah.r.madden at gmail.com
> work: 301.429.8189
>
>
--
Sarah ><>
sarah.r.madden at gmail.com
work: 301.429.8189
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