[B-Greek] 1Cor. 11:4 "something on his head"

Lawrence Carmichael lawrencecarmichael at yahoo.com
Sat Sep 5 13:48:13 EDT 2009


Makes good sense to me.  

thanks,

Larry Carmichael
CA




________________________________
From: Sarah Madden <sarah.r.madden at gmail.com>
To: Lawrence Carmichael <lawrencecarmichael at yahoo.com>
Cc: Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com>; b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Saturday, September 5, 2009 10:15:15 AM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] 1Cor. 11:4 "something on his head"


Larry --
 
In 1 Cor 11:4, wouldn't EXWN be referring back to the subject of the sentence (ANHR), and thus be masculine? If I were diagramming this sentence in Greek, I would place ECWN on a terrace below ANHR if I'm understanding this currectly and KATA KEFALHS as the direct object of ECWN. Just a thought.
 
PAS ANHR PROSEUCOMENOS H PROFHTEUWN KATA KEFALHS ECWN KATAISCUNEI THN KEFALHN OUTOU.
 
Sarah Madden
Maryland


On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 12:06 PM, Lawrence Carmichael <lawrencecarmichael at yahoo.com> wrote:

After re-reading your answer, I'm even more appreciative of it.
>
>In Esther 6:12 the LXX uses KATA KEPHALHS to translate "head covered".
>
>If you could bear with me for one more question?  ECWN is a masculine participle.  If KEPHALHS is feminine, why is ECWN masculine?
>
>Does it agree with the understood "something"?
>Does it agree with something else?
>>Did I just plain miss the obvious?
>
>
>Thanks,
>
>
>Larry Carmichael
>
>
>________________________________
>From: Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com>
>To: Lawrence Carmichael <lawrencecarmichael at yahoo.com>
>>Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>Sent: Saturday, September 5, 2009 2:45:30 AM
>Subject: Re: [B-Greek] 1Cor.  11:4 "something on his head"
>
>
>
>On Sep 4, 2009, at 10:14 AM, Lawrence Carmichael wrote:
>
>> English translations insert the idea of "something" into the text.  One commentator said it was "understood"'  Is there any reason "KATA KEPHALES ECHON" can't be translated "having his head down"?
>
>
>Yes, there is. KEFALHS is genitive; it cannot be the object of ECWN; as a genitive it is governed by the preposition KATA.
>To be the object of ECWN , the word KEFALH would have to be in the accusative case. Moreover, there's no instance of KATA used independently as an adverb
>
>KATA with the genitive, when it does not mean "against," means "down FROM."
>
>Text:
>1Cor. 11:4 πᾶς ἀνὴρ προσευχόμενος ἢ προφητεύων κατὰ κεφαλῆς ἔχων καταισχύνει τὴν κεφαλὴν αὐτοῦ.
>1Cor. 11:4 PAS ANHR PROSEUCOMENOS H PROFHTEUWN KATA KEFALHS ECWN KATAISCUNEI THN KEFALHN AUTOU.
>
>Here's the relevant entry from BDAG:
>
>1. marker of extension or orientation in space or specific area
>   a. of location that is relatively lower,  down from someth. (Hom. et al.; LXX; Ath. 1, 4 κ. κόρρης προπηλακίζειν [KORRHS PRPHLAKIZEIN] =t o smack on one side of the head) ὁρμᾶν κ. τοῦ κρημνοῦ [hORMAN KATA TOU KRHMNOU] rush down (from) the bank (cp. Polyb. 38, 16, 7 κ. τῶν κρημνῶν ῥίπτειν; [TWN KRHMNWN hRIPTEIN]  Jos., Bell. 1, 313) Mt 8:32; Mk 5:13; Lk 8:33. κ. κεφαλῆς ἔχειν [KATA KEFALHS ECEIN] have someth. on one’s head (lit. hanging down fr. the head, as a veil. Cp. Plut., Mor. 200f ἐβάδιζε κ. τῆς κεφαλῆς ἔχων τὸ ἱμάτιον [EBADIZE KATA THS KEFALHS ECWN TO hIMATION].; Mitt-Wilck. I/2, 499, 5 of a mummy ἔχων τάβλαν κ. τοῦ τραχήλου [ECWN TABLAN KATA TOU TRACHLOU]) 1 Cor 11:4.
>
>And here's the relevant entry from Louw & Nida:
>
>49.16 κατακαλύπτομαι [KATAKALUPTOMAI]; κατὰ κεφαλῆς ἔχω [KATA KEFALHS ECW] [(an idiom, literally ‘to have down on the head’): to wear a covering over one’s head — ‘to have one’s head covered, to cover one’s head.’
>>κατακαλύπτομαι: εἰ γὰρ οὐ κατακαλύπτεται γυνή [KATAKALUPTOMAI: EI GAR OU KATAKALUPTETAI GUNH]  ‘for if a woman does not have her head covered’ 1Cor 11:6.
>κατὰ κεφαλῆς ἔχω [: πᾶς ἀνὴρ προσευχόμενος ἢ προφητεύων κατὰ κεφαλῆς ἔχων [PAS ANHR PROSEUCOMENOS H PROFHTEUWN KATA KEFALHS ECWN] ‘any man who prays or prophesies with his head covered’ 1Cor 11:4
>
>Carl W. Conrad
>Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
>
>
>
>---
>B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
>B-Greek mailing list
>B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
>


-- 
Sarah ><>
sarah.r.madden at gmail.com
work: 301.429.8189



      


More information about the B-Greek mailing list