[B-Greek] [B-GREEK] GAL 2:2 DOKOUSIN

Blue Meeksbay bluemeeksbay at yahoo.com
Tue Feb 2 18:47:51 EST 2010


Hi Oun –
 
I am not sure if this was directed to me or to Carl or  Iver, so forgive me if you meant the question for them. It seems this thread has probably just about run its course since your post has not had any responses,  (but maybe that was because it was directed to me), which, if so, let me answer your question briefly. 
 
You wrote:
 
>May I take the expression 'those respected highly to be something of
importance' 2:6 (TWN DOKOUNTWN EINAI TI) to be a way of Paul's
obliquely calling hOI DOKOUNTES STULOI?<
 
I think Paul is contrasting those of verse 6, with those in verse 9 – two groups of people within the leadership of Jerusalem – equally "respected" by the people. So I would have to say I do not think so, that is, if I understand your question as meaning that the two groups are one and the same with  TWN DOKOUNTWN EINAI TI being an another way, or indirect way,  of saying hOI DOKOUNTES STULOI. 
 
But if you are saying Paul is hinting that he views the group negatively in verse 6 by the phrase TWN DOKOUNTWN EINAI TI, and that is his way of “indirectly” calling James, Cephas, and John the” true” pillars of the church, then I would have to say, yes, that could be a possiblity, at least from my point of view, but not from the words TWN DOKOUNTWN, but from the added phrase EINAI TI. (cf. Gal. 6:3 - EI GAR  DOKEI TIS EINAI TI MHDEN WN EAUTON FRENAPATA)
 
As far as Titus goes, you wrote: 

>(v.3) ἀλλ᾿ οὐδὲ Τίτος ὁ σὺν ἐμοί, ῞Ελλην ὤν, ἠναγκάσθη περιτμηθῆναι,
(v. 4) διὰ δὲ τοὺς παρεισάκτους ψευδαδέλφους,
OUDE TITOS ~~ DIA DE TOUS ~ YEUDODELOFOUS.

Does it imply that a demand was actually made on Titus to become
circumcised, though not by those respected, but by certain false
brethren?<
 
 
Boy,  I have no idea. It would be pure speculation on my part to suggest anything. 
 
Just in closing, it seems this passage can be understood in more than one way. A lot depends on our "presuppositions." I like a statement somebody wrote to me off-list which I think is an excellent statement. This person said, “Where I come down on an issue like this is to acknowledge alternatives that are at all possible and come down on the side that I deem more probable, without imagining that my word is the last word.”
 
I think that is great advice.
 
Sincerely,
B.Harris



________________________________
From: Oun Kwon <kwonbbl at gmail.com>
To: Blue Meeksbay <bluemeeksbay at yahoo.com>
Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Mon, February 1, 2010 7:01:15 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] [B-GREEK] GAL 2:2 DOKOUSIN

On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 8:21 PM, Oun Kwon <kwonbbl at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 11:14 AM, Blue Meeksbay <bluemeeksbay at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Oun Kwon wrote:
>>
>>>In any case, 'men of high reputation' do seem to include the three pillars, as evident from using similar expression with OI DOKOUNTES, OI DOKOUNTES EINAI TI, OI DOKOUNTES EINAI STULOI.
>>
>>
>> I will not deny the three pillars are included in those who were "reputed " to be leaders of the church, (OI DOKOUNTES)  in verse 2, but I question whether they are included, in Paul's mind, with the "men of high reputation" in verse 6, as the NASB translates OI DOKOUNTES EINAI TI. It does not need be translated that way. Carl Conrad's "esteemed or respected would also work, perhaps "those esteemed to be something" or those "esteemed to be influential." What I am suggesting is that within the entire group of those "reputed" to be leaders (vs. 2), you had varying factions.  I think Mark L. statement was spot on.
>>
>
> <clipped>
>
>>
>> B.Harris
>
>
> I appreciate this very much for further clarification. NET obscures
> this fine point when it rendered v. 2 and v. 6 exactly same and
> neglecting the phrase EINAI TI in v. 6  ('the influential people' in
> v. 2 and 'those who were influential' in v. 6).
>
> Oun Kwon.
>

Thanks to Carl and Iver, on the different postings to get further
clarification on this text.

May I take the expression 'those respected highly to be something of
importance' 2:6 (TWN DOKOUNTWN EINAI TI) to be a way of Paul's
obliquely calling hOI DOKOUNTES STULOI?

One more question I like to clarify is vv. 2:3-4

(v.3) ἀλλ᾿ οὐδὲ Τίτος ὁ σὺν ἐμοί, ῞Ελλην ὤν, ἠναγκάσθη περιτμηθῆναι,
(v. 4) διὰ δὲ τοὺς παρεισάκτους ψευδαδέλφους,
OUDE TITOS ~~ DIA DE TOUS ~ YEUDODELOFOUS.

Does it imply that a demand was actually made on Titus to become
circumcised, though not by those respected, but by certain false
brethren?

Oun Kwon.



      


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