[B-Greek] RE; John 2:4 TI EMOI KAI SOI (rev)

Albert Pietersma albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca
Tue Feb 23 21:55:34 EST 2010


Sorry, I forgot to include an important Greek word.
Al

Joh 2.4 has relatively little context, as a result of which it is  
difficult to determine the force of TI EMOI KAI EMOI, GUNAI. The  
Epictetus instances of the same expression gives more context. Here is  
the Epictetus passage, with considerable context.
Epictetus: Discourses, BOOK II. XIX. 14‑!9

Show me how you are in the habit of conducting yourself in a storm on  
board ship. Do you bear in mind this logical distinction between good  
and evil when the sail crackles, and you have screamed and some  
fellow‑passenger, untimely humorous, comes up and says, "Tell me, I  
beseech you by the gods, just what you were saying a little while ago.  
Is it a vice to suffer shipwreck? Is there any vice in that ? Will you  
not pick up a piece of wood and cudgel him ? "What have we to do with  
you, fellow? (TI hHMIN KAI SOI, ANQRWPE) We are perishing and you come  
and crack jokes!" And if Caesar sends for you to answer an accusation,  
do you bear in mind this distinction? Suppose someone approaches you  
when you are going in pale and trembling, and says, "Why are you  
trembling, fellow? What is the affair that concerns you? Does Caesar  
inside the palace bestow virtue and vice upon those who appear before  
him?" " Why do you also make mock of me and add to my other ills?'' "  
But yet, philosopher, tell me, why are you trembling? Is not the  
danger death, or prison, or bodily pain, or exile, or disrepute ? Why'  
what else can it be? Is it a vice at all, or anything that shares in  
vice? What was it, then, that you used to call these things?" "What  
have I to do with you, fellow? (TI EMOI KAI SOI, ANQRWPE) My own evils  
are enough for me." And in that you are right. For your own evils are  
enough for you‑‑your baseness, your cowardice, the bragging that  
you indulged in when you were sitting in the lecture room. Why did you  
pride yourself upon things that were not your own? Why did you call  
yourself a Stoic?
Al
On Feb 23, 2010, at 7:23 PM, Jeffrey B. Gibson wrote:

> Robert George wrote:
>> JG wrote (apparently with big, powerful microscope): Jesus was the
>> epitome of goodness and  would consequently never speak  
>> disparagingly
>> of anyone, let alone (and especially) of his mother.
> I did not say that this was my position.  I said that the belief that
> Jesus was the epitome of goodness was a hidden (and question begging)
> assumption behind the Vasile STANCU 's assertion that " The very fact
> that Jesus addresses his mother with that which we would translate by
> the English "woman" is proof enough that such a formula was not
> desrespectful."
>
> And in any case,  what I DID say was that if was fallacious on a  
> number
> of levels to attempt to determine the meaning of a Greek term by an
> appeal to what a given poster believes about the nature of Jesus'  
> moral
> character.
>
> Jeffrey
>
> -- 
> Jeffrey B. Gibson, D.Phil. (Oxon)
> 1500 W. Pratt Blvd.
> Chicago, Illinois
> e-mail jgibson000 at comcast.net
>
> ---
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—
Albert Pietersma PhD
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Weston ON Canada M9N 2B8
Email: albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca
Homepage: http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~pietersm




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