[B-Greek] Gen 3:16b LXX: t'shuqah (desire) => APOSTROFH(turning)

Albert Pietersma albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca
Wed Jan 6 14:21:01 EST 2010


On Jan 6, 2010, at 2:12 PM, George F Somsel wrote:

> I didn't say that it did contain APOSTROFH.
In that case your reply to the question in my previous note makes no  
sense.
AP. My question: "But to make that viable we would need from among the  
Hebrew words rendered by APOSTROFH one word that graphically is  
similar to TShQH. Is there such a one?"
GS. Your reply: "I think I just said that there is."
Al

> I said that it contained the Hebrew word C:$W.RfH which is similar  
> to C:$W.QfH especially in certain orthographies.  It is possible  
> that the two words may have been confused in one or more of the  
> three instances where it appears in the MT.  This might have posed a  
> problem for the translator since different passages would seem to  
> have differing meanings for the same word (with regard to a word  
> seldom used).
>  george
> gfsomsel
>
>
> … search for truth, hear truth,
> learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
> defend the truth till death.
>
>
> - Jan Hus
> _________
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Albert Pietersma <albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca>
> To: George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>
> Cc: Iver Larsen <iver_larsen at sil.org>; Ken Penner <kpenner at stfx.ca>;  
> b-greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Wed, January 6, 2010 11:53:57 AM
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Gen 3:16b LXX: t'shuqah (desire) =>  
> APOSTROFH(turning)
>
> Sorry, George, you are citing 1 Sam 9:7 but the Greek of 1 Sam (1  
> Rgns) 9:7 does not contain APOSTROFH.  Thus TShWRH of 1 Sam 9:7 is  
> irrelevant. Nor for that matter does Hatch-Redpatch list ANY  
> occurrence where APOSTROFH translates TShWRH.
> One might possibly play around with TShwBH, which in 1 Sam (1  
> Rgns)7:17 is rendered by APOSTROFH.
> Al
> On Jan 6, 2010, at 1:36 PM, George F Somsel wrote:
>
>> I think I just said that there is.
>>
>>   george
>> gfsomsel
>>
>>
>> … search for truth, hear truth,
>> learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
>> defend the truth till death.
>>
>>
>> - Jan Hus
>> _________
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Albert Pietersma <albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca>
>> To: George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>
>> Cc: Iver Larsen <iver_larsen at sil.org>; Ken Penner  
>> <kpenner at stfx.ca>; b-greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Sent: Wed, January 6, 2010 11:22:48 AM
>> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Gen 3:16b LXX: t'shuqah (desire) =>  
>> APOSTROFH(turning)
>>
>> If you are wondering whether APOSTROFH in Gen 3:16 might be based  
>> not on  a parent text like MT, or that TShQH might have been  
>> misread, the answer is Yes, of course.  But to make that viable we  
>> would need from among the Hebrew words rendered by APOSTROFH one  
>> word that graphically is similar to TShQH. Is there such a one?
>> Al
>> On Jan 6, 2010, at 11:41 AM, George F Somsel wrote:
>>
>>> Sometimes things happen serendipitously to further discovery, but  
>>> on other occassions one can be led into a wrong direction.  I  
>>> haven't thoroughly investigated this, but let me throw it out for  
>>> consideration anyway.
>>>
>>> There are three instances of תְּשׁוּקָה in the Masoretic  
>>> text of the OT, and one instance of תְּשׁוּרָה . The  
>>> latter is found in 1 Sam 9.7 and being a hapax is not totally  
>>> clear but seems to indicate a present (nor is the former totally  
>>> clear for that matter). I only noticed this since the latter  
>>> immediately followed the form in Gen 3.6 in the lexicon.  In the  
>>> history of transmission it is possible that there has been some  
>>> corruption in the text since at various periods some letters  
>>> resembled others rather closely.  There are thus two questions:   
>>> Is this due to a corruption?  If so, which passage exhibits the  
>>> corruption?  Of course, the usual question still remains regarding  
>>> the precise meaning of whichever form is determined to be correct.
>>>   george
>>> gfsomsel
>>>
>>>
>>> … search for truth, hear truth,
>>> learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
>>> defend the truth till death.
>>>
>>>
>>> - Jan Hus
>>> _________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>> From: Iver Larsen <iver_larsen at sil.org>
>>> To: Ken Penner <kpenner at stfx.ca>; b-greek <b- 
>>> greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
>>> Sent: Wed, January 6, 2010 8:41:35 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Gen 3:16b LXX: t'shuqah (desire) =>  
>>> APOSTROFH(turning)
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Ken Penner" <kpenner at stfx.ca>
>>> To: "b-greek" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
>>> Sent: 6. januar 2010 18:13
>>> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Gen 3:16b LXX: t'shuqah (desire) =>  
>>> APOSTROFH(turning)
>>> ...
>>> Iver, if you're interested in the meaning of T$WQTH, it occurs in  
>>> the Dead Sea
>>> Scrolls. Check at 1QS XI, 22; 1QM XV, 10; XVII, 4; 4Q256 XXII, 1;  
>>> 4Q256 1 10;
>>> 4Q446 3 1; 6Q18 2 4.
>>> ---------------------
>>>
>>> Sorry, I don't have access to these texts, and my Hebrew is not  
>>> that good.
>>>
>>> I do have what is called Semantic Dictionary of Biblical Hebrew,  
>>> and they give
>>> the following information for the Hebrew word in question:
>>> "to concentrate one's full attention on someone else ► either  
>>> with the purpose
>>> of pleasing that person or of gaining control over him/her; ●  
>>> agent: human - to
>>> turn one's attention to; to be enraptured by; to concentrate one's  
>>> energy on GEN
>>> 3:16; 4:7; SNG 7:11 [3])"
>>>
>>> Since this is Hebrew it is not relevant for this list except to  
>>> explore why the
>>> LXX translator(s) used APOSTROFH.
>>>
>>> Iver
>>>
>>> ---
>>> B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
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>>> B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
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>>
>>>> Albert Pietersma PhD
>> 21 Cross Street,
>> Weston ON Canada M9N 2B8
>> Email: albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca
>> Homepage: http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~pietersm
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>> Albert Pietersma PhD
> 21 Cross Street,
> Weston ON Canada M9N 2B8
> Email: albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca
> Homepage: http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~pietersm
>
>
>
>

—
Albert Pietersma PhD
21 Cross Street,
Weston ON Canada M9N 2B8
Email: albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca
Homepage: http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~pietersm




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