[B-Greek] Gen 3:16b LXX: t'shuqah (desire) => APOSTROFH(turning)

George F Somsel gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Wed Jan 6 14:12:12 EST 2010


I didn't say that it did contain APOSTROFH.  I said that it contained the Hebrew word C:$W.RfH which is similar to C:$W.QfH especially in certain orthographies.  It is possible that the two words may have been confused in one or more of the three instances where it appears in the MT.  This might have posed a problem for the translator since different passages would seem to have differing meanings for the same word (with regard to a word seldom used).  
 george
gfsomsel 


… search for truth, hear truth, 
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, 
defend the truth till death.


- Jan Hus
_________ 



----- Original Message ----
From: Albert Pietersma <albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca>
To: George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>
Cc: Iver Larsen <iver_larsen at sil.org>; Ken Penner <kpenner at stfx.ca>; b-greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Wed, January 6, 2010 11:53:57 AM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Gen 3:16b LXX: t'shuqah (desire) => APOSTROFH(turning)

Sorry, George, you are citing 1 Sam 9:7 but the Greek of 1 Sam (1 Rgns) 9:7 does not contain APOSTROFH.  Thus TShWRH of 1 Sam 9:7 is irrelevant. Nor for that matter does Hatch-Redpatch list ANY occurrence where APOSTROFH translates TShWRH.
One might possibly play around with TShwBH, which in 1 Sam (1 Rgns)7:17 is rendered by APOSTROFH.
Al
On Jan 6, 2010, at 1:36 PM, George F Somsel wrote:

> I think I just said that there is.
> 
>  george
> gfsomsel
> 
> 
> … search for truth, hear truth,
> learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
> defend the truth till death.
> 
> 
> - Jan Hus
> _________
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Albert Pietersma <albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca>
> To: George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>
> Cc: Iver Larsen <iver_larsen at sil.org>; Ken Penner <kpenner at stfx.ca>; b-greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Wed, January 6, 2010 11:22:48 AM
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Gen 3:16b LXX: t'shuqah (desire) => APOSTROFH(turning)
> 
> If you are wondering whether APOSTROFH in Gen 3:16 might be based not on  a parent text like MT, or that TShQH might have been misread, the answer is Yes, of course.  But to make that viable we would need from among the Hebrew words rendered by APOSTROFH one word that graphically is similar to TShQH. Is there such a one?
> Al
> On Jan 6, 2010, at 11:41 AM, George F Somsel wrote:
> 
>> Sometimes things happen serendipitously to further discovery, but on other occassions one can be led into a wrong direction.  I haven't thoroughly investigated this, but let me throw it out for consideration anyway.
>> 
>> There are three instances of תְּשׁוּקָה in the Masoretic text of the OT, and one instance of תְּשׁוּרָה . The latter is found in 1 Sam 9.7 and being a hapax is not totally clear but seems to indicate a present (nor is the former totally clear for that matter). I only noticed this since the latter immediately followed the form in Gen 3.6 in the lexicon.  In the history of transmission it is possible that there has been some corruption in the text since at various periods some letters resembled others rather closely.  There are thus two questions:  Is this due to a corruption?  If so, which passage exhibits the corruption?  Of course, the usual question still remains regarding the precise meaning of whichever form is determined to be correct.
>>  george
>> gfsomsel
>> 
>> 
>> … search for truth, hear truth,
>> learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
>> defend the truth till death.
>> 
>> 
>> - Jan Hus
>> _________
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Iver Larsen <iver_larsen at sil.org>
>> To: Ken Penner <kpenner at stfx.ca>; b-greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Sent: Wed, January 6, 2010 8:41:35 AM
>> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Gen 3:16b LXX: t'shuqah (desire) => APOSTROFH(turning)
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ken Penner" <kpenner at stfx.ca>
>> To: "b-greek" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Sent: 6. januar 2010 18:13
>> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Gen 3:16b LXX: t'shuqah (desire) => APOSTROFH(turning)
>> ...
>> Iver, if you're interested in the meaning of T$WQTH, it occurs in the Dead Sea
>> Scrolls. Check at 1QS XI, 22; 1QM XV, 10; XVII, 4; 4Q256 XXII, 1; 4Q256 1 10;
>> 4Q446 3 1; 6Q18 2 4.
>> ---------------------
>> 
>> Sorry, I don't have access to these texts, and my Hebrew is not that good.
>> 
>> I do have what is called Semantic Dictionary of Biblical Hebrew, and they give
>> the following information for the Hebrew word in question:
>> "to concentrate one's full attention on someone else ► either with the purpose
>> of pleasing that person or of gaining control over him/her; ● agent: human - to
>> turn one's attention to; to be enraptured by; to concentrate one's energy on GEN
>> 3:16; 4:7; SNG 7:11 [3])"
>> 
>> Since this is Hebrew it is not relevant for this list except to explore why the
>> LXX translator(s) used APOSTROFH.
>> 
>> Iver
>> 
>> ---
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>> 
>> 
>> 
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> 
>> Albert Pietersma PhD
> 21 Cross Street,
> Weston ON Canada M9N 2B8
> Email: albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca
> Homepage: http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~pietersm
> 
> 
> 
> 

—
Albert Pietersma PhD
21 Cross Street,
Weston ON Canada M9N 2B8
Email: albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca
Homepage: http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~pietersm


      



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