[B-Greek] Rev 1:10
George F Somsel
gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Thu Jun 24 21:42:25 EDT 2010
9Ἐγὼ Ἰωάννης, ὁ ἀδελφὸς ὑμῶν καὶ συγκοινωνὸς ἐν τῇ θλίψει καὶ βασιλείᾳ καὶ ὑπομονῇ ἐν Ἰησοῦ, ἐγενόμην ἐν τῇ νήσῳ τῇ καλουμένῃ Πάτμῳ διὰ τὸν λόγον τοῦ θεοῦ καὶ τὴν μαρτυρίαν Ἰησοῦ.10ἐγενόμην ἐν πνεύματι ἐν τῇ κυριακῇ ἡμέρᾳ καὶ ἤκουσα ὀπίσω μου φωνὴν μεγάλην ὡς σάλπιγγος
9 EGW IWANNHS, hO ADELFOS hUMWN KAI SUGKOINWNOS EN THi QLIYEI KAI BASILEIAi KAI hUPOMONHi EN IHSOU, EGENOMHN EN THi NHSWi THi KALOUMENHi PATMWi DIA TON LOGON TOU QEOU KAI THN MARTURIAN IHSOU.
10 EGENOMHN EN PNEUMATI EN THi KURIAKHi hHMERAi KAI HKOUSA OPISW MOU FWNHN MEGALHN hWS SALPIGGOS.
Perhaps "John" does indeed represent himself as "becoming" on Patmos since he continues with DIA TON LOGON TOU QEOU KAI THN MARTURIAN IHSOU. In other words, he was exiled to Patmos for his faith and confession. I certainly would contend that in v 10 EGENOMHN must be understood as "became." I would go so far as to render it "I fell into a trance on the Lord's day ..."
george
gfsomsel
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learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
defend the truth till death.
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________________________________
From: Vasileios Tsialas <tsialas78 at hotmail.com>
To: iver_larsen at sil.org; B-Greek Lists <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Thu, June 24, 2010 1:21:06 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Rev 1:10
> From: iver_larsen at sil.org
> To: tsialas78 at hotmail.com; gfsomsel at yahoo.com; ekbaker at essex1.com; b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Rev 1:10
> Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 21:27:51 +0200
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Vasileios Tsialas" <tsialas78 at hotmail.com>
> To: <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>; <ekbaker at essex1.com>; "B-Greek Lists"
> <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: 24. juni 2010 20:16
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Rev 1:10
> ...
> >
> > I would appreciate everyone’s opinion on that, that the verb εγενόμην offers a
> > clue. The text says:
> > «Εγενόμην εν τη νήσω τη καλουμένη Πάτμο […] εγενόμην εν πνεύματι εν τη Κυριακή
> > ημέρα».
> > If εγενόμην means “was (present) in the
> > island of Patmos”, in the first clause, I find it most possible to mean
> > exactly
> > the same at the second clause: “I was (present) in the Lord’s day by means of
> > spirit”.
> >
> > Vasileios
> > Tsialas
>
> Well, I don't think EGENOMHN simply means "was", but points to being in a
> certain state at the same time as it implies a transition from not being in that
> state.
>
> First, he came to be on this island, but that was not his normal location.
> Second, he came to be in the Spirit. This is a way of saying that he had a
> vision. The same expression is found in Rev 4:2:
> εὐθέως ἐγενόμην ἐν πνεύματι
> EUQEWS EGENOMHN EN PNEUMATI
> Right away I came to be in the Spirit (i.e. under the power of the Spirit)
>
> It is parallel in some ways to Acts 10:10:
> ἐγένετο δὲ πρόσπεινος καὶ ἤθελεν γεύσασθαι. παρασκευαζόντων δὲ αὐτῶν ἐγένετο ἐπ᾽
> αὐτὸν ἔκστασις
> EGENETO DE PROSPEINOS KAI HQELEN GEUSASQAI. PARASKEUAZONTWN DE AUTWN EGENETO EP'
> AUTON EKSTASIS.
> He came to be hungry and wanted to get a meal. While it was being prepared, he
> had an "outside-himself" experience.
> This means that the Holy Spirit came upon him and he saw a vision.
I don't think that your examples are
relative to the construction we have in Re 1:9, 10.
In Acts 10:10a εγένετο simply means "became" and we
have after εγένετο an attribute (he became
hungry). In 10b εγένετο means "took
place". This is not the meaning of εγενόμην in Re 1:9.
John did not "become" or
"took place" in Patmos. Here we have γίγνομαι + adverbial phrase (εν + place). So, John was found, was located
in Patmos. (BDAD: to be in or at a place, be in, be there)
In the very next verse, Re 1:10, we
have a similar structure (εν +
time) and I find it very reasonable εγενόμην to be understood similarly. (BDAG: to be
present at a given time, be there)
> Therefore, it seems clear that Rev 1:10 means that John came under the power of
> the Spirit and saw a vision, and it happened on the Lord's day - which is well
> established expression for Sunday from the papyri.
Which are these papyri you refer to?
> The Day of the Lord refers to a future time when Jesus will return and exact
> punishment on the unbelievers. This sense does not fit at all the context of Rev
> 1:10.
As far as I remember, the very topic of the book of Revelation is the Day of the Lord, but I wouldn't argue about this topic.
>
> Iver Larsen
>
Vasileios Tsialas
Athens, Greece
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