[B-Greek] Rev 1:10

Bryant J. Williams III bjwvmw at com-pair.net
Sat Jun 26 23:09:57 EDT 2010


Dear Mark,

A similar question came up regarding this verse date 07/18/2008.

    "Should Christians Meet on Sunday and Who Should Do the Teaching?
In this post I am not interested in discussing the issue of whether Sunday is
the sabbath or should be considered the Christian sabbath or not. My interest is
the historical one--- did early Christians regularly meet on a fixed day of the
week, and was that day Sunday? We have seen in the immediately previous post,
that Pliny noticed that Christians did indeed meet on specific or set day of the
week, at least in the region where he was governor. But is there other evidence
besides the allusion to the Lord's Day in Revelation 1, or the reference in 1
Cor 16? Well yes there is, and it is probably first century evidence as well.
Here below you will find the discussion in the Didache on this very matter. The
first day of the week was called the Lord's Day, because of course it was the
day Jesus rose from the dead. It was not picked because it was called Sunday or
the day of Apollo. It had to do with the Jewish calendar not the Julian one, and
more specifically it had to do with when after dying on Passover Eve Jesus
thereafter rose from the dead.

Here is the quote from the Didache--


14:1 And on the Lord's own day gather yourselves together and break bread and
give thanks, first confessing your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be
pure.
14:2 And let no man, having his dispute with his fellow, join your assembly
until they have been reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be defiled;
14:3 for this sacrifice it is that was spoken of by the Lord;
14:4 "In every place and at every time offer Me a pure sacrifice;
14:5 for I am a great king, saith the Lord and My name is wonderful among the
nations."

The translation here is by that other Durhamite, J.B. Lightfoot. Several points
call for comment. Firstly, in this text there is a definite reference to the
Christian meeting being on Sunday, and the activities listed involve sharing in
the Lord's Supper and confessing sins, as James instructed. Notice that the word
sacrifice is applied here to the meal which is spoken of as involving breaking
bread and giving thanks. What makes especially clear that the reference is to
the Lord's Supper, is that it entails a sacrifice "spoken of by the Lord".

The rest of the article deals with chapter 15 and prophets/teachers.

Note the following:

    "William Varner, Greek professor at The Master's College, has written on The
Didache, both in articles and book form.

Article:
    The Didache's Use of the Old and New Testament, TMSJ 16/1 (Spring 2005)
127-151.

What the "Teaching" Can Teach Us, Christianity Today, June, 2006.

Book:
    The Way of the Didache: The First Christian Handbook.
Publisher: University Press of America
Pub. Date: February 2007
ISBN: 0761837140
ISBN-13: 9780761837145
154pp

Aaron Milavec,
    The Didache: Faith, Hope, & Life of the Earliest Christian Communities,
50-70 C.E. (Hardcover)

These are the two most recent works.

It would probably be good to review both of the information above. EN KURIAKHi
hHMERAi is taken to refer to Sunday and not the eschatological, Lord's Day. This
is especially crucial since the dating is placed closer to 50 AD contra C.H.
Dodd and others.

En Xristwi,

Rev. Bryant J. Williams III

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Lightman" <lightmanmark at yahoo.com>
To: "Vasileios Tsialas" <tsialas78 at hotmail.com>; <iver_larsen at sil.org>; "B-Greek
Lists" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2010 3:13 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Rev 1:10


> Vasileios quoted the Expositor’s Bible Commentary:
>
> <Some feel that John was
> transported into the future day of the Lord, the prophetic day of God's great
> judgment and the return of Christ (E. W. Bullinger, The Apocalypse, 2d
> ed. [London: Eyre & Spottiswoode, 1909], p. 152). The major objection to
> this is that John does not use the common expression for the eschatological
> "day of the Lord" (hemera kyriou).>
>
> Hi, Vasileios,
>
> My response to this, as someone who believes the verse refers to the future
> day of the Lord and not Sunday, is to suggest that John chose the phrase
> precisely to distinguish it from the traditional hHMERA KURIOU.
> The OT and the NT Eschatological Days are similar but different, and so a
> similar but different phrase makes sense. New skins for new wine.
>
> Mark L
>
>
>
> FWSFOROS MARKOS
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Vasileios Tsialas <tsialas78 at hotmail.com>
> To: iver_larsen at sil.org; B-Greek Lists <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Sat, June 26, 2010 12:37:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Rev 1:10
>
>
>
>
> > From: iver_larsen at sil.org
> > To: tsialas78 at hotmail.com; b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> > Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Rev 1:10
> > Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 23:47:37 +0200
> >
>
> >
> > The problem with your analysis is that you do not connect the parts
correctly.
> > EGENOMHN must be construed with EN PNEUMATI to give EGENOMHN EN PNEUMATI as
we
> > have it in Rev 4:2, and this expression means that he came under the power
of
> > the Spirit. The following prepositional phrase gives the time of this event,
> > namely EN KURIAKHi hHMERAi = on the Lord's day. All translations agree on
this,
> > and there is no good reason to doubt that they are correct.
> >
> > Iver Larsen
> >
>
>
>
> > From: iver_larsen at sil.org
>
> > To: tsialas78 at hotmail.com;
> b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>
> > Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Rev 1:10
>
> > Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 23:47:37 +0200
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
> > The problem with your analysis is that you do
> not connect the parts correctly.
>
> > EGENOMHN must be construed with EN PNEUMATI
> to give EGENOMHN EN PNEUMATI as we
>
> > have it in Rev 4:2, and this expression means
> that he came under the power of
>
> > the Spirit. The following prepositional
> phrase gives the time of this event,
>
> > namely EN KURIAKHi hHMERAi = on the Lord's
> day. All translations agree on this,
>
> > and there is no good reason to doubt that
> they are correct.
>
> >
>
> > Iver Larsen
>
> >
>
>
>
> Dear Iver,
>
>
> I agree that Rev 4:2 is a strong
> indication for the meaning of εγενόμην εν πνεύματι in 1:10. But I think you
are wrong to definitely exclude the
> linguistic possibility of an alternative understanding of the construction of
> the sentence and of the meaning of εγενόμην. Rev 4:2 is just the one side of
the case. The other
> is the two following cases:
>
>
>
> Rev 17:3 καὶ
> ἀπήνεγκέν με εἰς ἔρημον ἐν πνεύματι.
>
>
> Rev 21:10 καὶ ἀπήνεγκέν με ἐν πνεύματι ἐπὶ ὄρος μέγα καὶ
> ὑψηλόν
>
>
>
> Here we have the adverbial phrase εν πνεύματι at the end and at the middle of
the
> clauses, which explains how John was transferred to some places. He was
> spiritually (or by means of the holy spirit) transferred to a place.
>
> The same can occur in Re 1:10.
>
>
> If γίγνομαι + time can mean the one’s being
> present in a specific time (BDAG, meaning 8 of γίγνομαι), and εν πνεύματι
explains how this could be done,
> then the alternative understanding is linguistically possible and was
supported
> by E.W. Bullinger in his commentary on Revelation.
(http://www.ccel.org/ccel/bullinger/apocalypse.iv.html)
>
>
> If the vast
> majority of translators or commentators reject this alternative understanding,
> they do not do this on grounds of grammar but because of their position as to
> the meaning of κυριακή ημέρα.
>
>
> They say that κυριακή
> ημέρα is nowhere else in NT used for the eschatological ημέρα Κυρίου. But this
argument can be reversed, since nowhere
> else, as well, κυριακή ημέρα is used for what is repeatedly called in NT πρώτη
σαββάτου or μία σαββάτου, that is, the first day of week. (Mat 28:1· Mar 16:2,
> 9· Ac 20:7· 1Co 16:2) It is noteworthy that, among such uses, there are two in
> the Gospel of John, which is commonly held to be chronologically the last text
> of the NT.—John 20:1, 19.
>
>
> Hence, the Expositor’s Bible Commentary admits as
> regards κυριακή ημέρα: “Since
> this is the only place in the NT where this expression is used, its
> identification is difficult.”
>
>
> And it goes on
> saying:
>
>
> “Paul uses kyriake as an adjective in 1
> Corinthians 11:20 in reference to the
> "Lord's supper" (kyriakon deipnon). Some feel that John was
> transported into the future day of the Lord, the prophetic day of God's great
> judgment and the return of Christ (E. W. Bullinger, The Apocalypse, 2d
> ed. [London: Eyre & Spottiswoode, 1909], p. 152). The major objection to
> this is that John does not use the common expression for the eschatological
> "day of the Lord" (hemera kyriou). Others find a reference
> here to Easter Sunday and base it on the tradition reported in Jerome's
commentary
> on Matthew 24, that Christ would return on Easter Eve (Friedrich Bleek,
Lectures
> on the Apocalypse, ed. and trans. L.T. Hossbach and S. Davidson [London:
> Williams & Norgate, 1875], p. 156). ”More
> recently a convincing attempt has been made to link the literary form of
> Revelation with the paschal (Easter) liturgy of the ancient church (Massey H.
> Shepherd, Jr., The Paschal Liturgy and the Apocalypse [Richmond: John
> Knox, 1960]). Most commentators, both ancient and modern, have, however, taken
> the expression to mean Sunday, the first day of the week (W. Stott, "A
> Note on kyriake in Rev
> 1:10," NTS, 12 [1965], 70-75). This usage
> occurs early in the apostolic fathers (Didache 14; Ignatius To the
> Magnesians 9). Tendencies toward recognizing Sunday as a day designated by
> Christ to celebrate his redemption occur even in the earlier parts of the NT
(Acts 20:7; 1Cor
> 16:2). Such a reference would bind the exiled
> apostle to the worshiping churches in Asia through his longing to be with them
> on Sunday. It is not impossible, however, that the day referred to here was an
> Easter Sunday.”—On CD, V. 2,8 (2001).
>
>
>
> So, we have, not
> two, but three proposals of κυριακή ημέρα! And the proposal for its being the
first day of the
> week is based on the testimony of Ignatius and Didache. Yet, both texts are
> controversial as of their origin and dating and it would be not unreasonable
for
> them to be dated circa 150 C.E.—M.W. Holmes, The Apostolic Fathers, Baker
Academic, 2007 (3rd ed.), p. 171-173,
> 335-338.
>
>
> That being the
> case, it rests on the researcher’s judgment to conclude what κυριακή ημέρα
means—it is rather a historical, or even theological,
> matter than linguistic.
>
>
>
> Vasileios
> Tsialas
>
>
> Athens
> Greece
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