[B-Greek] The last Trump

Mark Lightman lightmanmark at yahoo.com
Sun Oct 3 11:07:32 EDT 2010


Hi Timothy,

As someone who also has over twenty years of experience being wrong about Greek, 
let me say that I think you have given Mike both a response and an answer, and 
both KALA.

επαινω το σον. ευ γ' εποιησας.  (EPAINW TO SON. EU G' EPOIHSAS.)

The sense of the tense of αλλαγησομεθα (1 Cor. 15:51) was, I think, well 
captured by Lincoln in another context:  "...shall be then, thenceforward, and 
forever, free."

p.s. I always have an idiot (me) as a teacher. 

 Mark L



FWSFOROS MARKOS




________________________________
From: Timothy Lawson <tslawson1 at yahoo.com>
To: Mike Burke <michaelgburk at yahoo.com>; B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Sun, October 3, 2010 8:34:00 AM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] The last Trump

Mike,
    Your question is a bit vague but I will happy to respond. You may not get an 

answer but at least you'll have a response. 


At 1 Cor. 15:51 nothing is mentioned about the sounding of the trumpet, but the 
"change" is mentioned (ALLAGHSOMEQA) which Paul evidently sees as yet in his 
future - thus it is future in tense. The future tense in Greek seems to be one 
of the instances that time is actually grammaticalized rather than just 
indicating aspect or aktionsart. It is also passive in voice which indicates 
that the action of "being changed" comes from outside - a theological passive if 

you like. It is also in indicative in mood which indicates that the writer views 

the event as factual/true. However, a good liar would also use the indicative 
and so that you don't misunderstand me I'll state that I don't view Paul as a 
liar.
 
Now in verse 52 the last trumpet is mentioned. It, of course, is a noun in the 
dative case - dative of accompaniment. The verse goes on to explain that the 
trumpet will sound – SALPISEI – which is future/indicative/active and that the 
dead will be raised up – EGERQHSONTAI – which is future/indicative/passive. 

 
At 1 Thess. 4:16 God’s trumpet is mentioned which is similarly in the dative of 
accompaniment. The dead in Christ will be raised up/be roused from sleep – 
ANASTHSONTAI - future/indicative/middle.
 
However, be warned that for more than twenty years I have been auto-didactically 

trained in biblical Greek and therefore I have had an idiot (idiwths Acts 4:13, 
1Cor.14:24)) for a teacher.  
 
My definition of “experience” is doing something the wrong way for twenty years 
and getting away with it. 

 
“Don’t tell me how to do it right! I’ve done it this way twenty years and gotten 

away with it! I have experience!”
 
Mike, I take a special delight in end- times prophecy and would enjoy a dialog 
with you on the subject – off list of course!
 
To All: If I have made any obvious mistakes please point them out.
 
"Scotty"

Timothy Scott Lawson



________________________________
From: Mike Burke <michaelgburk at yahoo.com>
To: B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Sat, October 2, 2010 12:51:34 PM
Subject: [B-Greek] The last Trump

What are the verb tenses used in 1 Cor. 15:51 and Thes. 4:16 (in regards to the 
sounding of the trumpet, and the rising of the dead in Christ)?


      
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