[B-Greek] John 11:24(25)

Iver Larsen iver_larsen at sil.org
Fri Oct 29 00:47:51 EDT 2010


The one who believes in the statement

ὁ πιστεύων εἰς ἐμὲ κἂν ἀποθάνῃ ζήσεται

is any believer in Jesus. It does not refer back to Lazarus, and it talks about 
a future resurrection of every believer.

Reading KJV from a modern English perspective can lead to all sorts of 
misunderstandings. As it has been pointed out already, this particular 
grammatical construction in a future context is no longer English, but it was 
apparently good English 4-500 years ago. For instance, consider:

Neh 1:9: But [if] ye turn unto me, and keep my commandments, and do them; though 
there were of you cast out unto the uttermost part of the heaven, [yet] will I 
gather them from thence, and will bring them unto the place that I have chosen 
to set my name there. (KJV)

but if you return to me and keep my commandments and do them, though your 
dispersed be under the farthest skies, I will gather them thence and bring them 
to the place which I have chosen, to make my name dwell there. (RSV)

But if you return to me and obey my commands and live by them, then even if you 
are exiled to the ends of the earth, I will bring you back to the place I have 
chosen for my name to be honored. (NLT)

Iver Larsen

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Burke" <michaelgburk at yahoo.com>
To: <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: 29. oktober 2010 02:46
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] John 11:24(25)


> Lazarus was dead at the time, wasn't he?
>
> Given that context (and especially if the dead are conscious, and capable of 
> "believing"), wouldn't "though he were dead" make some sense?
>
> --- On Thu, 10/28/10, Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com>
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] John 11:24
> To: "Mike Burke" <michaelgburk at yahoo.com>
> Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Date: Thursday, October 28, 2010, 11:22 PM
>
>
> On Oct 28, 2010, at 6:48 PM, Mike Burke wrote:
>> Yes, I did mean John 11:25, and that is how it's translated in the A.V., 
>> isn't it?
>>
>> It does say "though he were dead, yet shall he live," doesn't it?
>>
>> Were the King James translators serious, or were they guilty of an obvious 
>> "mistranslation" here?
>
> It does read that way, to be sure. I've never felt comfortable enough with 
> Elizabethan English usage of modals
> to judge that usage. All I can say is that it's pretty far removed from the 
> English of the last couple centuries.
>
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
>
>>
>> --- On Thu, 10/28/10, Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com>
>> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] John 11:24
>> To: "Mike Burke" <michaelgburk at yahoo.com>
>> Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>> Date: Thursday, October 28, 2010, 10:31 PM
>>
>>
>> On Oct 28, 2010, at 6:15 PM, Mike Burke wrote:
>>> Would a more acurate translation of John 11:24 be "though he were dead, yet 
>>> shall he live," or "though he may die, yet shall he live"?
>>
>> I suspect you mean John 11:25, the clause, ὁ πιστεύων εἰς ἐμὲ κἂν ἀποθάνῃ 
>> ζήσεται, [hO PISTEUWN EIS EME KAN APOQANHi ZHSETAI.
>>
>> "though he were dead ... " = "even if he were dead" -- Are you seriously 
>> suggesting that? That's a present counterfactual condition ("even if he were 
>> dead (which he is not), ... "
>>
>> The Greek text is what's called a future more vivid condition. KAN APOQANHi 
>> indicates the possitibility that the believer may at some time die; so, it 
>> should be something like, "Even if he does die (ever), he will live."
>>
>>
>> Carl W. Conrad
>> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
> B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
> B-Greek mailing list
> B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
> 




More information about the B-Greek mailing list