[B-Greek] John 11:24(25)

Yancy W Smith yancywsmith at sbcglobal.net
Fri Oct 29 07:25:46 EDT 2010


In agreement with Iver, I see Jesus here talking past Martha, a character in the narrative, to the implied reader as an encouragement to such a reader. John introduces this dramatic, narrative device in 1:12 as well as in other passages, such as the famous passage in 20:31, where the referent becomes 2nd person plural: Ἰωάννην 20:31 πιστευοντες ζωην εχητε εν τω ονοματι αυτου. In other words ο πιστευων εις  εμε hO PISTEUWN EME refers to the representative believer who is hearing the gospel of John read aloud. This audience are encouraged to identify with Lazarus in his impending resurrection as symbolic of their own experience in Christ.

Yancy Smith

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 28, 2010, at 6:46 PM, Mike Burke <michaelgburk at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Lazarus was dead at the time, wasn't he?
> 
> Given that context (and especially if the dead are conscious, and capable of "believing"), wouldn't "though he were dead" make some sense?
> 
> --- On Thu, 10/28/10, Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com>
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] John 11:24
> To: "Mike Burke" <michaelgburk at yahoo.com>
> Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Date: Thursday, October 28, 2010, 11:22 PM
> 
> 
> On Oct 28, 2010, at 6:48 PM, Mike Burke wrote:
>> Yes, I did mean John 11:25, and that is how it's translated in the A.V., isn't it?
>> 
>> It does say "though he were dead, yet shall he live," doesn't it?
>> 
>> Were the King James translators serious, or were they guilty of an obvious "mistranslation" here?
> 
> It does read that way, to be sure. I've never felt comfortable enough with Elizabethan English usage of modals
> to judge that usage. All I can say is that it's pretty far removed from the English of the last couple centuries.
> 
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
> 
>> 
>> --- On Thu, 10/28/10, Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> From: Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com>
>> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] John 11:24
>> To: "Mike Burke" <michaelgburk at yahoo.com>
>> Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>> Date: Thursday, October 28, 2010, 10:31 PM
>> 
>> 
>> On Oct 28, 2010, at 6:15 PM, Mike Burke wrote:
>>> Would a more acurate translation of John 11:24 be "though he were dead, yet shall he live," or "though he may die, yet shall he live"?
>> 
>> I suspect you mean John 11:25, the clause, ὁ πιστεύων εἰς ἐμὲ κἂν ἀποθάνῃ ζήσεται, [hO PISTEUWN EIS EME KAN APOQANHi ZHSETAI.
>> 
>> "though he were dead ... " = "even if he were dead" -- Are you seriously suggesting that? That's a present counterfactual condition ("even if he were dead (which he is not), ... "
>> 
>> The Greek text is what's called a future more vivid condition. KAN APOQANHi indicates the possitibility that the believer may at some time die; so, it should be something like, "Even if he does die (ever), he will live."
>> 
>> 
>> Carl W. Conrad
>> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
> 
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