[B-Greek] EPHESIANS 4:11 - four groups or five?
George F Somsel
gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Fri Sep 24 10:45:08 EDT 2010
It's always hazardous to be too overly exact in interpreting what anyone says
since we don't tend to speak absolutely precisely (some more, some less). The
fact that we have a μεν MEN .. δε DE construction which is then concluded by και
KAI would seem to imply that the item joined by the και KAI is to be considered
a unit with what has preceded. One of the commentators I tend to trust more
than some is B. F. Westcott who states in regard to this
τοὺς μέν ...] Someof those whom He had taken and fashioned for His service as
apostles, and some, as prophets ….
The three groups ‘apostles,’ ‘prophets,’ ‘evangelists,’ represent ministers who
had a charge not confined to any particular congregation or district. In
contrast with these are those who form the settled ministry, ‘pastors and
teachers,’ who are reckoned as one class not from a necessary combination of the
two functions but from their connexion with a congregation.
Saint Paul's Epistle to the Ephesians: The Greek text with notes and addenda.
1909 (B. F. Westcott, bp. of Durham & J. M. Schulhof, [from old catalog, Ed.)
(62). London; New York: Macmillan and co., limited; The Macmillan company.
While I obviously would tend to agree with him, I would hesitate to adamantly
maintain that position. How often do we hear statements such as "not to
mention" followed precisely by a mention of that which was supposedly not to be
mentioned and other similar usages? Language is a funny thing.
george
gfsomsel
… search for truth, hear truth,
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
defend the truth till death.
- Jan Hus
_________
________________________________
From: Blue Meeksbay <bluemeeksbay at yahoo.com>
To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Fri, September 24, 2010 7:19:04 AM
Subject: [B-Greek] EPHESIANS 4:11 - four groups or five?
EPHESIANS 4:11 KAI AUTOS EDWKEN TOUS MEN APOSTOLOUS, TOUS DE PROFHTAS, TOUS DE
EUAGGELISTAS, TOUS DE POIMENAS KAI DIDASKALOUS
I really couldn’t find much on this in the archives, but are there any new
thoughts on whether the writer of Ephesians is referring to five groups of
individuals as opposed to four groups of individuals?
I certainly concede that the phrase TOUS DE POIMENAS KAI DIDASKALOUS is being
set apart from the rest, but this appears to just indicate that these two groups
of individuals are being considered distinct by the writer, (in some way), but
not that he is delineating a single group of individuals called Pastor Teachers.
If that was the thought he was trying to communicate, would it not have been
easier to leave out the conjunction and simply put DIDASKALOUS in apposition to
POIMENAS?
Sincerely,
Blue Harris
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