[B-Greek] My Ideal Greek (Beginning) Grammar
Paul D. Nitz
paul.d.nitz at gmail.com
Wed Apr 13 10:58:36 EDT 2011
Smashing! Brilliant! Wonderful!
The topic of Greek primers has come up often enough on B-Greek, but I have
not seen anything get to the core of the matter better than Louis Sorenson's
post (characteristics of an ideal primer) or offer as much promise as
Shirley Rollinson's news (her grammar in progress, written with B-Greek
input!).
I am very much looking forward to hearing reactions to Shirley and your
post.
Just one suggestion... a list-serve is an awkward tool for certain
discussions which members might want to a) really drill into and b) take
some time before replying. You know how it works on B-Greek. The messages
come so thick and fast that threads get crossed over and buried too quickly.
A Discussion Board tool works much better. If you haven't used a discussion
board, you will find it a joy for extended discussions.
I wonder if we could try it out just for this particular discussion about an
ideal primer? Would you be willing to post your criteria on a separate
board, Louis?
One of the list members already has a discussion board set up on Stack
Exchange. A previous post about Stack Exchange is found below.
PD Nitz
----- Original Message -----
From: "hoshi411" <hoshi411 at gmail.com>
To: <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2011 6:20 PM
Subject: [B-Greek] Another Greek Question Forum
> This may be off topic so no worries if it doesn't make the list.
>
> Ever since I started using stack exchange, I've been wishing they had a
> Greek forum and now I've figured out how to create one.
>
> Anyone who has experienced how fun stack exchange forums are to use will
> understand.
>
> The proposal needs 50 users to sign up in order to go through.
>
> If you are interested in starting a stack exchange greek forum please sign
> up
>
> http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/29568/ancient-greek
>
>
> - Joshua Robison
----- Original Message -----
From: "Louis Sorenson" <llsorenson at hotmail.com>
To: "B-Greek List mail to all" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 1:39 PM
Subject: [B-Greek] My Ideal Greek (Beginning) Grammar
>
> Hello all,
>
> I’ve been thinking a lot lately about what my "perfect" Greek first year
> grammar would be. Shirley Rollinson's thread about her online grammar
> discusses the same topics. The reason there are so many first year
> grammars, methinks, is that many teachers feel the ones they use are
> inadequate in some way, so they sits themselves down and writes their own.
> It's really difficult for a teacher with ideas to teach from another's
> textbook without changing a few things. That just the way teaching works.
> But with the internet and software applications becoming commonplace,
> there is still the need for a modern Koine Greek grammar which uses these
> resources (smart phone, online flashcards, etc.) to the max. We now have
> video, audio on demand, and very sound information from teachers of Second
> Language Acquisition on how people learn and retain a foreign language.
> Some of these elements have started creeping their way into Latin and
> ancient Greek teaching in the classroom and manuals, and there are several
> ancient Greek Grammars which are based on communicative methodology
> (Buth's Living Koine, Rioc's Polis, Assimil's le Grec Ancien to some
> extent). But of course, it's hard to communicate with a book, as it does
> not talk back to you.
>
> So I'm still looking for that comprehensive grammar which teaches a full
> first year of Greek and puts it all together in a stylish appealing format
> (like Rico or Assimil) that is both portable (Assimil), and electronic
> (none out there yet, or are there?) and has the audio resources of Buth
> (no Greek grammar has as much audio as Buth's) and is based on a story
> (like Hale or Athenaze) and is progressive (like Athenaze). It must
> utilize audio, video, songs, and other teaching methods which let a remote
> learner, self-learner, or traditional class student use the material. It
> must also use the terminology of modern linguistics in a way which gives
> confidence to the student they are understanding language strucytures but
> does not make language learning be an academic venture of identifying
> forms and structures. It's got to make students forget they are learning
> until they have realized (too late) that it has already happened.
>
> I'm not in the academic community, but have taught Greek to a number of
> people over the last several years using Hale's "Let's Study Greek" (which
> is a story-based NT grammar) and incorporating my own active-learning
> materials. I use Mounce's book as a supplement (It has the worst index of
> any grammar out there, but my students like it's in-depth coverage in
> contrast with Hale's simplicity). But like Shirley Rollinson, I've been
> looking for something better to use.
>
> I also have to ask myself, what does an online student need? How does
> that differ from and in-class student and how does one best bridge the
> disconnect of online learners who are not present in a 'communicative
> environment?' So here is my bucket list (just started last week) which
> still needs a lot of improvement. TI FRONEIS? Hopefully my Hotmail client
> has not mashed my list below.
>
> Louis Sorenson......List as follows:
>
>
> APPROACH / PHILOSOPHY
> o Use modern linguistic language terminology: e.g. patient, actor, ktl.
> o Focus teaching/learning via the communicative method. Learning
> happens when the learner tries to communicate. This makes reading
> secondary to writing and hearing secondary to speaking in importance, but
> not in order of learning.
> o A “Circular” based learning format. (Whole language).
> -- This enables words like ἵνα INA + subjunctive to be introduced
> early on.
> -- Also subjunctive forms like “Let’s Start!” ἀρχώμεθα,
> ἐσθίωμεν..ARXWMETHA ESQIWMEN
> -- Stock forms with set phrases are used without having the student
> learn their grammatical format. E.g. μὴ γένοιτο! MH GENOITO
> o Teaches the reader how to guess at the meaning of words. To be
> satisfied with not looking up every word.
> o School vocabulary (i.e. the words a student uses in school: book,
> desk, table, white-board, pen, eraser, list, etc.) is used in Greek
> throughout the book (written in the text, not just used in class).
> o Grammatical terminology is put off – An appendix of grammatical terms
> is given where such things are explained. The focus is trying to get the
> student to think Greek, not to think about Greek grammar structures.
> o English grammatical terms are used instead of Greek (masculine,
> feminine, neuter) rather than ἀρσενικος, θηλικος, ουδευτερον ARSENIKOS,
> QHLIKOS, OUDETEROS). – but where it makes sense to use Greek terms, those
> will also be used.
>
> FORMAT
> o Small Chapter length. Assimil uses about a 20 minute twice a day
> format. This gives the learner a sense of accomplishment. The trend has
> been to convert grammars into a 32 lesson (college school year) chapter
> format. This makes focusing on a separate structure impossible to do in a
> single chapter.
> o Many pictures, images and callouts. Historical asides to places,
> events, ktl. E.g. Strabo's tower. (Have you heard the song Strabo's
> Tower is Falling Down)
> o Tools for reading (an electronic companion) with pop-up parsing,
> pop-up paradigms e.g. for verbs of the same class.
> o Have English glosses for all Greek examples (like in Smyth) and
> charts
> o Teaches the student to learn primary vocabulary and use
> sub-vocabulary lists for reading (like in the Readers Greek NT).
> o Self-study appropriate – compatible. Answer key
> o The running story text has footnotes (like a Readers’ NT)
>
> VOCABULARY
> o A base vocabulary of 600 words. This is twice the average Greek NT
> grammar and what Blaine Ray recommends is needed for learning a second
> language.
> o Semantic domains are included as part of the vocabulary teaching.
> o Word-formation is taught when new vocabulary is introduced (e.g. ways
> to form adjectives….-ικος, -ινος, ..-IKOS -INOS.)
> o NT/LXX Frequencies are given for Vocabulary
>
> GRAMMAR TEACHING AND PROGRESSION
> o Superfluity of Examples. Further examples are given (in a drill-down
> format (electronic)) when the student wants more examples.
> o Significant attention is given to word order and discourse features.
> (like Goetchus on PAS) and Runge's book
> o The aorist is introduced early as the default.
> o Common irregular verbs are introduced early: δίδωμι, τίθημι, ἀφίημι.
> βαίνω, γινωσκω DIDWMI, TIQHMI, AFIHMI, BAINW, GINWSKW
> o A discussion of the ‘deponent’ issue is given in-depth. The middle
> voice is taught in a way to not promote reflexive as the main idea, but
> subject-focused
> o A transition to Greek thought – word order – it must acclimate the
> student to change his thinking patterns.
>
> STORY
> o Story based. It contains a text which intrigues the reader/student
> and captures their attention. You can have several story threads going on
> in different places, and flashbacks and forwards to other time events, but
> the text revolves around a person (protagonist) with whom the reader
> identifies. This enables family structures, relationships, etc. to be
> introduced in the opening section, along with names, etc.
> o A compelling story: For Koine, set in Israel in the time of Christ
> with people who have heard about Jesus, known those Essenes, dealt daily
> with Roman occupation, etc. The plot must come to a climax and have
> resolution. It would be filled with opinions of people (many
> controversial) and their impressions to events (Jesus was nothing but a
> trouble-maker)
> o The story text is modeled on actual NT or secular Greek passages
> and/or adapted where needed. Communication based. This means there are
> many dialogues in the story- like the back and forth give and take in
> Plato
> o A place for the student in the story – this could be in the form of
> taking the part of one of the secondary people in any given story. In an
> active classroom, they would be asked for their opinion, .to participate
> somehow in the conversation. They would be given several scripts, based
> on the plot, from which they could draw on. Alternatively, they could
> assume the persona of one of the secondary characters in any given story –
> and use their lines.
> o The story text is modeled on actual NT or secular Greek passages
> and/or adapted where needed.
> o The books of Luke/Acts/Epictetus will be the model of Greek text –
> when citations of passages are given, those authors will be heavily relied
> on.
> o Story is historically accurate in regards to dates, culture, etc.
>
> AUDIO
> o Audio based. All stories have recorded audio. Recorded exercises
> (askeseis) like Buth’s and Assimil’s.
> o Multiple voices in the audio. Feminine, Masculine, good Greek
> pronunciation, bad (e.g. an Egyptian or Persian speaking Greek). People
> like to make fun of mispronunciations like Alcibiades with his lisp.
> o All audio is in Buth’s restored Koine pronunciation.
>
> EXERCISES
> o Contains action-based learning repertoires with activity guides for
> teachers of the book: e.g. when learning δίδωμι DIDWMI, there would be a
> table with objects the teacher gives and takes objects from the students.
> Corresponding worksheets would be available.
> o Writing based – heavy on composition. Perhaps have the student write
> a diary or summary of each story.
> o Askeseis (Exercises) include semantic switch-outs (word replacements)
> (This is one of Buths unique strongest features)
>
> CO-READINGS AND ACTIVITIES
> o Frequent parts of ‘easy’ passages are given as corollary readings.
> o Parallel passages (not a verse or phrase) of Scripture to be read
> along with story, simplified when needed. This gets people into reading
> the actual Greek of the New Testament early on and wets their appetite for
> more
> o Include songs and an option to solidify patterns and stock phrases.
> o Significant LXX allusions, passages, Psalms, etc.
>
> RESOURCES
> o Has a separate Syntax (or utilizes an existing simple syntax). This
> could be used and a reference guide – the order follows Smyth’s order to
> prepare them for his book.
> o Has a separate Table of Forms that is complete:
> -- This could be used and a reference guide
> -- The order follows Smyth’s order to prepare them for his
> book.
> -- The verb chart and table of forms is color-tabbed for easy
> reference
> -- An index exists at the beginning of the verb chart for the
> different types (or Buth's unique format of listing all present tense
> meaning verbs side-by-side is utilized) I cannot wait for his complete
> list of verbs!
> -- Koine forms (e.g. for εἰμί) would be given with Attic forms
> being shown in the notes for alternative forms.
> o Cross-references are given to Smyth, Funk, Basics of Biblical Greek
> throughout the grammar. (any other standard references needed?)
> o Has an appendix of Grammatical terminology
> o Has a teacher's handbook with instructions on each lesson on how to
> use active learning methods.
> o Has a student's handbook for the remote learner (or electronic guide)
> and section on how to learn with the Communicative approach
>
>
> ---
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