[B-Greek] DVORAK Polytonic Greek Keyboard Layout

Mark Lightman lightmanmark at yahoo.com
Wed Apr 20 00:19:56 EDT 2011


John wrote

<I don't think it is a stretch to concede that the non-historical and  
non-ethnic Erasmian pronunciation is a conventional device that creates a  
degree of separation from Greek linguistic culture (present and  historic)...> 


Hi, John,

I concede this.  It separates one from ANY ONE HISTORICAL POINT in Greek 
linguistic culture.  But since Erasmian is a nice blend of the Restored Attic 
(the vowels, basically) and the MG (loss of pitch accents, philosophia instead 
of pilosopia, silent iota subscript) this KALH PROFORA spans the centuries, 
making me feel closer to Homer AND Paul.

Oun wrote

< We are free to do whatever way works better for us.>

Hi, Oun,

Yes. Yes. Yes.  The world has no national keyboard!  vive le difference!


 Mark L
Φωσφορος


FWSFOROS MARKOS




________________________________
From: John Schwandt  <jschwandt at nsa.edu>
To: Mark Lightman  <lightmanmark at yahoo.com>
Cc: steve_miller at sil.org; b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Tue, April 19, 2011 12:21:29 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] DVORAK Polytonic Greek Keyboard Layout

Markos!

heh, heh, I like the inquiry.  I'm not sure about a corporate sense of offense, 
but I'm sure the Phoenician graphemes had an effect.  Actions that express or 
exert dominance (even unintentional) reinforce social and political opinions and 
positions.  I'm sure it changed their language and culture.  I don't think we 
differ about how language impacts others, we probably simply are finding a 
difference of degree.

I don't think it is a stretch to concede that the non-historical and non-ethnic 
Erasmian pronunciation is a conventional device that creates a degree of 
separation from Greek linguistic culture (present and historic) AND that the 
institutionalized dominance of this convention of pronunciation creates its fair 
share of collateral damage. (e.g. a number of beginning Grammars say that the 
system is historical; when choosing a pronunciation system one feels pressure to 
join or stay in the Erasmian club simply to reduce obstacles on the academic 
institutional side of things, even knowing that is isn't way the language 
originally sounded.  It also creates an obstacle -some say lesser, some say 
greater- for scholars, especially Greeks not in the Erasiman club, to 
participate in the academy. Who could argue that this barrier doesn't point to 
some form of separation?)

I think there is a legitimate parallel between translation issues and the issues 
that Randall and I are raising about pronunciation and typing conventions.  In 
translation one will either tend to bring the reader to the source (demand work 
and change from the reader), or tend to change the source and bring it to the 
reader. This is typically termed domesticating vs. foreignizing.  So for the 
sake of making things easier for Americans we have the American Erasmian 
pronunciation (changed the source, domesticating).  The same can be said for 
English style keyboard layouts.  Maybe I'm strange, but when I set my mind to 
learning a foreign language, I want to experience and learn the foreign (even 
through my fingertips).  To the extent that I domesticate what is the foreign 
object of my study, I end up changing it more than myself and I end up merely 
learning about the foreign from the safety of my domesticated conventions.   One 
way power issues show up is when the domesticated conventions are presented as 
the foreign per se.  (e.g., Erasmian is ancient Greek pronunciation; This is an 
equivalent Greek keyboard; This is the Greek deponent verb; etc.,)

It is completely possible to frame these academic issues in such a way that 
domesticates and institutionalizes them that both Modern Greeks feel us 
co-opting elements of their language culture so as to experience some degree of 
distance from them AND to create artificial anglo-distance between ourselves and 
ancient Greek language culture.  We can actually recast the language in a 
distorted and more difficult fashion for the sake of accommodating immediate 
anglo-conveniences. If we are going to down this road, we should just 
transliterate everything.  I hope you would agree that if transliteration became 
the preferred and institutionalized method of printing Greek in all cultures 
with Roman alphabets, that it would have an effect on Modern Greek academics as 
well as our understanding and relation to ancient Greek.  


I'm sorry this is so long.  I really do enjoy the short to the point posts.  I 
suppose this shows that I'm still trying to put my finger on core issues.  
(terrible pun intended.)

Blessings,
John


 


On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 5:00 AM, Mark Lightman <lightmanmark at yahoo.com> wrote:

Steve wrote
>
>
>< I further confess the idea that using Dvorak
>on Greek has negative cultural implications to Greek makes me scratch my
>head.>
>
>George wrote
>
><You surely must be joking.  A keyboard separates one from the culture !
>Absurd.>
>
>Hi, Steve and George (and John and Randall)
>
>When the Greeks decided to write the language with Phoenician letters instead 
of
>with the Linear B syllabary,  I wonder if the Mycenaeans were offended.
>
> Mark L
>Φωσφορος
>
>
>FWSFOROS MARKOS
>
>
>
>
>



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