[B-Greek] Parousia/Adventum?

Carl Conrad cwconrad2 at mac.com
Wed Feb 2 13:54:15 EST 2011


On Feb 2, 2011, at 1:17 PM, Mike Burke wrote:

>>>>> The normal understanding of the 
> words is that "coming" is punctiliar and refers to the point of arrival 
> while "presence" is durative and refers to someone who has arrived and is 
> here. However, while durativity is a semantic property (it is not 
> dependent on the context and cannot be canceled) punctuality is a pragmatic 
> property (it must be construed by help of the context and can be canceled), 
> and therefore punctiliarity is much more difficult to pinpoint. (Se for 
> instance Matt 24:30 where even ERCOMAI is durative as are the Aramaic words 
> quoted.)

For my part, I don't think I'd understand ERCOMAI in Mt 24:30 as "durative."
It's an act of arrival "in progress" -- but the reference is surely to an event of 
arrival, not to a continuing presence. For what it's worth, BDAG doesn't list any
GNT text as having the sense of "presence."

> There can be no doubt that PAROUSIA in the NT in some cases has a durative 
> meaning. This is seen by the parallel between the word and "the days 
> (plural) of Noah" in Matt 24:37-39

Matt. 24:37 	Ὥσπερ γὰρ αἱ ἡμέραι τοῦ Νῶε, οὕτως ἔσται ἡ παρουσία τοῦ υἱοῦ τοῦ ἀνθρώπου.  38 ὡς γὰρ ἦσαν ἐν ταῖς ἡμέραις [ἐκείναις] ταῖς πρὸ τοῦ κατακλυσμοῦ τρώγοντες καὶ πίνοντες, γαμοῦντες καὶ γαμίζοντες, ἄχρι ἧς ἡμέρας εἰσῆλθεν Νῶε εἰς τὴν κιβωτόν,  39 καὶ οὐκ ἔγνωσαν ἕως ἦλθεν ὁ κατακλυσμὸς καὶ ἦρεν ἅπαντας, οὕτως ἔσται [καὶ] ἡ παρουσία τοῦ υἱοῦ τοῦ ἀνθρώπου.
[hWSPER GAR hAI hHMERAI TOU NWE, hOUTWS ESTAI hH PAROUSIA TOU hUIOU TOU ANQRWPOU.  38 hWS GAR HSAN EN TAIS hHMERAIS [EKEINAIS] TAIS PRO TOU KATAKLUSMOU TRWGONTES KAI PINONTES, GAMOUNTES KAI GAMIZONTES, ACRI hHS hHMERAS EISHLQEN NWE EIS THN KIBWTON,  39 KAI OUK EGNWSAN hEWS HLQEN hO KATAKLUSMOS KAI HREN hAPANTAS, hOUTWS ESTAI [KAI] hH PAROUSIA TOU hUIOU TOU ANQRWPOU. ]

I don't think I'd understand the usage of PAROUSIA here in the sense of "enduring presence"; I think the analogue here is the coming of the flood, the day upon which Noah entered the ark.

> and that it is contrasted with APOUSIA 
> in Philippians 2:12.

Phil. 2:12 	Ὥστε, ἀγαπητοί μου, καθὼς πάντοτε ὑπηκούσατε, μὴ ὡς ἐν τῇ παρουσίᾳ μου μόνον ἀλλὰ νῦν πολλῷ μᾶλλον ἐν τῇ ἀπουσίᾳ μου, μετὰ φόβου καὶ τρόμου τὴν ἑαυτῶν σωτηρίαν κατεργάζεσθε· 
[hWSTE, AGAPHTOI MOU, KAQWS PANTOTE hUPHKOUSATE, MH hWS EN THi PAROUSIAi MOU MONON ALLA NUN POLLWi MALLON EN THi APOUSIAi MOU, META FOBOU KAI TROMOU THN hEAUTWN SWTHRIAN KATERGAZESQE·\

BDAG notes another instance of PAROUSIA in the sense, "presence" in the GNT: 1 Cor 16:17, but the sense there may well be "arrival" -- and I would be inclined to understand it that way:

1Cor. 16:17 χαίρω δὲ ἐπὶ τῇ παρουσίᾳ Στεφανᾶ καὶ Φορτουνάτου καὶ Ἀχαϊκοῦ, ὅτι τὸ ὑμέτερον ὑστέρημα οὗτοι ἀνεπλήρωσαν·
[CAIRW DE EPI THi PAROUSIAi STEFANA KAI FORTOUNATOU KAI ACAI+KOU, hOTI TO hUMETERON hUSTERHMA hOUTOI ANEPLHRWSAN·]

And one other:

2Cor. 10:10 ὅτι αἱ ἐπιστολαὶ μέν, φησίν, βαρεῖαι καὶ ἰσχυραί, ἡ δὲ παρουσία τοῦ σώματος ἀσθενὴς καὶ ὁ λόγος ἐξουθενημένος. 
[hOTI hAI EPISTOLAI MEN, FHSIN, BAREIAI KAI ISCURAI, hH DE PAROUSIA TOU SWMATOS ASQENHS KAI hO LOGOS EXOUQENHMENOS.]


> But what kind of tests or what kind of expressions 
> could show that only the moment of arrival was focussed upon? Take the 
> English expression "Sit down!" as an example. In almost all cases the 
> meaning is resultative. We usually do not focus upon the downward movement 
> when the person takes her seat or the moment when this movement ends, but 
> rather on the result - the state of sitting. So how can we know that this 
> is not the case with PAROUSIA as well, and that the noun has the same 
> meaning as the verb hHKW, a possibility mentioned by Carl (in the thread 
> "coming or presence)?<<<<
>  
> Would Adventum still be a fair translation of parousia?

"adventUM" is an accusative form in Latin; the nominative is ADVENTUS.

>  Could advetum (in some contexts) also have a durative meaning?

No, not adventus; the Latin equivalent of PAROUSIA in the sense of 
enduring presence is PRAESENTIA.


Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)






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