[B-Greek] [B Greek] Goetchius Textbook

Carl Conrad cwconrad2 at mac.com
Wed Feb 2 13:57:50 EST 2011


This was clearly intended for the list rather than for me personally.

Begin forwarded message:

> From: spencerj76 at aol.com
> Date: February 2, 2011 12:14:55 PM EST
> To: cwconrad2 at mac.com
> Subject: Re: [B Greek] Goetchius Textbook
> 
> 2 Feb 2011
>  
> A Contribution to Biblical Greek Discussion
>  
> Friends:
>  
> I've been following the discussion of Biblical Greek pedagogy with interest as well as some of the other discussions on the list. I'd like to mention a textbook I used in the mid-1970s--Eugene Van Ness Goetchius, "The Language of the New Testament" (1966). The textbook used a modern, linguistic approach, and seemed, at the time to have a linguistic orientation. The most important thing, though, is that it helped me learn to read the New Testament through fundamental skills, which could be supplemented with other materials later. I agree with Carl's point that authentic Greek style, rather than made-up sentences is probably best for most learners of koine. In some ways, though, I think that what really helped me with koine Greek was reading papyri. My college library had a book containing a collection of papyri letters (without translation) and I endeavored to translate those letters as a one-semester independent study project. Since there were few helps other than massive dictionaries for that sort of thing (or I wasn't aware of them at the time) I had to wrestle with the language for myself. I wouldn't claim a lot for my "translations," but I learned a lot about tricky participles and Greek word order, and I probably even used the "find the main verb" technique more than once. I've wondered at times whether the use of sentences from the Greco-Roman world at the time of the New Testament (inscriptions, papyri) might impart some of the flavor of the times in which the NT was written.
>  
> As I was learning to read NT Greek, I found H. E. Dana and Julius R. Mantey's "A Manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament" (published by Macmillan in 1927 and again in 1955) helpful. There are certainly better texts on syntax today, but what I liked about it at the time was its simplicity and lucidity, each example carefully chosen (I thought then), and not so many examples as to be overwhelming, but just enough. The book is 368 pages but my copy is of small, compact size. I still use it.
>  
> I'd be interested in hearing from anyone else who used Goetchius' textbook--specifically, whether that approach contributed to a long-term interest in, and use of, Biblical Greek.
>  
> Best wishes,
> Rev. Jeremy Spencer
> Pastor, Odessa Baptist Church
> Odessa, NY
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com>
> To: Robert Stump <robertstump at gmail.com>
> Cc: Barry H. <nebarry at verizon.net>; B-Greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Wed, Feb 2, 2011 5:06 am
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Objections to Machen (was "In Defense of Machen, ... ")
> 
> 
> On Feb 1, 2011, at 9:47 PM, Robert Stump wrote:
> 
> > I feel I need to ask since I just made myself of copy of Machen.  Is
> > there some harm in the Englishized lessons of Machen if one is
> > offsetting them with Koine readings?  Specifically, is there some harm
> > in using the lessons as a means of familiarize oneself with the
> > grammar, or say verbal formation and vocabulary acquisition by means
> > of the rote work of coping and doing simplified lessons, again, with
> > the caveat of Koine readings in addition?
> 
> If I were you, I would steer clear of both the Greek-English and the 
> English-Greek translation exercises. Colwell & Tune was recommended
> earlier, I think; that would offer you a very good sequence of longer 
> and connected readings in good, idiomatic Koine prose. Another good 
> opportunity nobody has yet mentioned is the ΣΧΟΛΗ website hosted 
> by our B-Greek Co-Chair Leon Sorenson at 
> http://schole.ning.com/
>  -- 
> officially titled Σχολὴ εἰς τὸ τὴν ἀρχαίαν Ἑλληνικὴν γράφειν, 
> ἀναγινώσκειν, λέγειν καὶ ἀκούειν [SCOLH EIS TO THN ARCAIAN 
> hELLHNIKHN GRAFEIN, ANAGINWSKEIN, LEGEIN KAI AKOUEIN]
> 
> There are all sorts of helps and tools there for Koine Greek conversation 
> and exchange of notes (σχόλια SCOLIA), audio files, etc., and a good 
> company of friendly people exchanging talk and written messages and 
> songs in Koine Greek with each other. While the quality of the Greek
> spoken and written there may deviate somewhat from that taught by
> ancient schoolmasters, the site offers an opportunity to listen, read, 
> speak, write ancient Greek. I have even myself taken the opportunity
> to exchange baseball chatter with Mark L. about the Cardinals and 
> Rockies. The point of this is: you want to be absorbing Greek not as 
> a dead language with enigmatic texts to be decoded but rather as what it 
> really was and is: an instrument of ordinary human communication.
> 
> Carl W. Conrad
> 
> > On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 9:33 PM, Barry H. <
> nebarry at verizon.net
> > wrote:
> >> 
> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: <
> davidabooth at comcast.net
> >
> >> To: "Carl Conrad" <
> cwconrad2 at mac.com
> >
> >> Cc: "B-Greek" <
> b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> >
> >> Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 8:44 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Objections to Machen (was "In Defense of Machen, ...
> >> ")
> >> 
> >> 
> >>> The simplicity of Machen for the student is also found in David Alan
> >>> Black's Learn to Read New Testament Greek. Yet, Black is for more
> >>> linguistically informed. I can't understand why anyone would use Machen's
> >>> grammar today given how many better choices are available. <<
> >> 
> >> One could ask how linguistically informed a person has to be to learn a
> >> language.  People got along fine until a few decades ago without modern
> >> linguistic theory.  You learned your first language without the benefit if
> >> linguistic training...  :)
> >> 
> >> However, I taught from Machen for 4 years +, and I wouldn't want to do it
> >> again.  McCartney had a chance to do a really good revision, but not too
> >> much changed, methodologically.  But who am I to talk, who uses Crosby &
> >> Schaeffer with 8th graders?  :)
> >> 
> >> N.E. Barry Hofstetter, M.A., M.Div., Th.M.
> >> The American Academy
> >> 
> http://theamericanacademy.net
> 
> >> The North American Reformed Seminary
> >> 
> http://www.tnars.net
> 
> >> 
> >> 
> http://my.opera.com/barryhofstetter/blog
> 
> ---
> B-Greek home page: 
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> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> 


Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)






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