[B-Greek] John 11:4 and the Middle/Passive of DOXAZW

Bryant J. Williams III bjwvmw at com-pair.net
Sat Feb 19 14:25:12 EST 2011


Dear Mark, et al,

I am replying on this post and not the others that followed.

Thank you for your response. I was really wondering if it was Middle or Passive, then Carl mentioned that the fact that DOXAZW is transitive yet seem to left room for this particular use as being Middle (if I understood him correctly?).  George did make mention that this a Subjunctive, but would the Middle/Passive be different from that of the Indicative, Imperative, Optative, Infinitive, etc.? Although, it has been a pleasant surprise that this list has finally(?) gotten the ball rolling on getting rid of the use of "deponent." It is similar to any written document that has the grammar checks do not like Passive constructions. Passives will be accepted in the document, but you have click on the "Ignore" button. Middles seems to flummox grammarians since "subject affectedness" is a concept that is initially hard to get one's mind to wrap around. Once there, though, it makes perfect sense.

En Xristwi,

Rev. Bryant J. Williams III
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Mark Lightman 
  To: Bryant J. Williams III ; B Greek 
  Sent: Friday, February 18, 2011 7:22 PM
  Subject: Re: [B-Greek] John 11:4 and the Middle/Passive of DOXAZW


  Bryant egrapse:

  <I really wonder if this is not a Middle.>

  Hi, Bryant,

  Yes, I think you can take this as a middle.  I once came up with something I called the Carl Conrad Rule of Mediopassivity, which stated that one should take any OMAI or QHN form as a middle unless you HAVE to take it as a passive.  Carl disavowed this rule ("a crude simplification of something I didn't really say," or some such) but I still live by this rule.  Call it the Lightman Rule of Mediopassivity if you want.  Just spell my name right!

  If DOXAZW means "I cause something to be glorious," the middle would mean "I become glorious," "I break out into glory."  Whatever one calls it, that's what the text means. 

  By the way, this verse shows that as far as the prior thread about John 9:3 goes, there is nothing un-Johanine about suffering existing for the purpose of glorifying God. 


  Mark L
  Φωσφορος 


  FWSFOROS MARKOS





------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  From: Bryant J. Williams III <bjwvmw at com-pair.net>
  To: B Greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
  Sent: Fri, February 18, 2011 7:45:17 PM
  Subject: [B-Greek] John 11:4 and the Middle/Passive of DOXAZW

  Dear List,

  I am curious about the following:

  Ἀκούσας δὲ ὁ Ἰησοῦς εἶπεν, Αὕτη ἡ ἀσθένεια οὐκ ἔστιν πρὸς θάνατον, ἀλλʼ ὑπὲρ τῆς
  δόξης τοῦ θεοῦ, ἵνα δοξασθῇ ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ θεοῦ διʼ αὐτῆς.

  AKOUSAS DE hO IHSOUS EIPEN, AUTH hH ASQENEIA OUK ESTIN PROS QANATON, ALL' hUPER
  DOXHS TOU QEOU, hINA DOXASQHi hO hOIOS TOU QEOU DI' AUTHS.

  My question concerns δοξασθῇ DOXASQHi. The lexicons give it as Aorist Passive
  Subjunctive 3rd Person Singular. Thus, after hINA + Subjunctive we have a
  purpose clause, but my question is it really a Passive or more like a
  Middle/Passive giving it the idea of "for the purpose of the Son of God
  glorified in Himself through it"? This may be a stretch, but with the QH ending
  I really wonder if this is not a Middle.

  En Xristwi,

  Rev. Bryant J. Williams III

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