[B-Greek] Double article
susan at read-the-bible.org
susan at read-the-bible.org
Tue Feb 22 07:22:49 EST 2011
Hi Joe - sorry you found the response to "read more" flippant or a
put-down. Normally the list responds quite kindly to really basic Greek
grammar questions like this one.
Do you have a basic and/or intermediate biblical Greek grammar book?
Any such book will do for a start -- look up articles. Greek doesn't
handle articles the same way English does, and the rules can get pretty
complicated if you want to sort out particular patterns using grammar
rules. It's probably easier in the long run to just read a lot of
biblical Greek, and you'll soon get the hang of it. Often there's no
apparent reason for one sentence having an article and another not
having one (although I bet some on this list will have rules to cover
everything).
For example, many beginning Greek classes use John's gospel as a text --
take a look at the first couple of chapters -- right in the first two
verse are three occurrences of QEON, two with an article and one
without.
As for "Why is the article not taken seriously here?" I believe it's
because in general this is a quite common construction, with all sorts
of nouns besides UIOS and ANQRWPOS.
I hope I got the transliteration right. I've been lurking for over a
decade and still hardly ever post.
Susan Jeffers
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Double article
> From: "Joe Ripley" <joseph.ripley at ntlworld.com>
> Date: Tue, February 22, 2011 4:09 am
> To: <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
>
>
> Instead of "standard way to state such in Greek" would it not be more accurate to say that it is the standard way to translate this into English?
>
> on the web I found this:
> In the Koine Greek of the New Testament, the term "the son of man" is invariably "ὁ υἱὸς τοὺ ἀνθρώπου", which might be rendered more literally "the son of the human being"; however, due to conventions of interpreting the definite article in Greek, "the son of man" most scholars believe is a better translation.
>
> Only Jesus and Stephen use the article for MAN. I have not been able to find any case of this in the LXX or in the rest of the NT. Why is the article not taken seriously here?
>
> As for the "read more and you'll see" putdown - read what and where are my response?
>
> Joe Ripley
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: George F Somsel
> To: Joe Ripley ; b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2011 12:48 AM
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Double article
>
>
> I think you're trying to rely on your English language experience too much. This is a standard way to state such in Greek. Read more and you'll see.
>
>
> george
> gfsomsel
>
>
>
> … search for truth, hear truth,
> learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
> defend the truth till death.
>
>
>
> - Jan Hus
> _________
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: Joe Ripley <joseph.ripley at ntlworld.com>
> To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Sent: Sat, February 19, 2011 5:14:22 PM
> Subject: [B-Greek] Double article
>
> Dear List - Does anyone have any thoughts about the use of the double article in hO hUIOS TOU ANQRWPOU which Jesus used of himself many times? He even asked the newly healed man who had been born blind, if he knew who "The son of the man is". Stephen used it too when he saw Jesus at the right side of God.
> In Daniel 7, Revelation 14 and Ezekiel 37 no definite article is used for "son of man".
> Could it be some Jewish 'code speak' for Messiah, "The man" being perhaps understood to be David or maybe Adam?
>
> Joe Ripley
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