[B-Greek] Double article

Mark Lightman lightmanmark at yahoo.com
Tue Feb 22 08:15:10 EST 2011


Joe wrote

<Only Jesus and Stephen use the article for  MAN.>

Hi, Joe,

But isn't the phrase used almost exclusively by Jesus?  What is the break down 
of Jesus' use of TOU versus TOU ANQRWPOU?

<Why is the article not taken seriously here?>

I'm on record as saying that most of the time, we take stuff like this, the 
presence of the article, word order, which connectives are used, imperfect 
versus aorist, etc, TOO seriously, in that euphony and stylistic variation are 
often more of a factor here than semantic considerations.  You've got, on this 
list, Semantic Minimalists and Semantic Maximalists and everything in between.  
Susan J. and I, I think, are Semantic Minimalists, but she's correct, there are 
Maximalists out there who can find a difference in meaning here as everywhere.  


 Mark L
Φωσφορος


FWSFOROS MARKOS




________________________________
From: Joe Ripley <joseph.ripley at ntlworld.com>
To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Tue, February 22, 2011 4:09:20 AM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Double article

Instead of "standard way to state such in Greek" would it not be more accurate 
to say that it is the standard way to translate this into English?

on the web I found this:
In the Koine Greek of the New Testament, the term "the son of man" is invariably 
"ὁ υἱὸς τοὺ ἀνθρώπου", which might be rendered more literally "the son of the 
human being"; however, due to conventions of interpreting the definite article 
in Greek, "the son of man" most scholars believe is a better translation.

Only Jesus and Stephen use the article for  MAN. I have not been able to find 
any case of this in the LXX or in the rest of the NT. Why is the article not 
taken seriously here? 


As for the "read more and you'll see" putdown - read what and where are my 
response?

Joe Ripley

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: George F Somsel 
  To: Joe Ripley ; b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org 
  Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2011 12:48 AM
  Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Double article


  I think you're trying to rely on your English language experience too much.  
This is a standard way to state such in Greek.  Read more and you'll see.

  
  george
  gfsomsel 



  … search for truth, hear truth, 
  learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, 
  defend the truth till death.



  - Jan Hus
  _________ 





------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  From: Joe Ripley <joseph.ripley at ntlworld.com>
  To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
  Sent: Sat, February 19, 2011 5:14:22 PM
  Subject: [B-Greek] Double article

  Dear List - Does anyone have any thoughts about the use of the double article 
in hO hUIOS TOU ANQRWPOU which Jesus used of himself many times?  He even asked 
the newly healed man who had been born blind, if he knew who "The son of the man 
is". Stephen used it too when he saw Jesus at the right side of God.
  In Daniel 7, Revelation 14 and Ezekiel 37 no definite article is used for "son 
of man".
  Could it be some Jewish 'code speak' for Messiah, "The man" being perhaps 
understood to be David or maybe Adam?

  Joe Ripley
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