[B-Greek] Greek Middle vs. Reflexive in various other languages
Carl Conrad
cwconrad2 at mac.com
Mon Jan 10 09:29:38 EST 2011
For what it's worth, let me note and briefly comment on what's readily
observable in the active and middle-passive primary and secondary
personal endings of ancient Greek verbs:
Primary Active Middle-Passive
1 sg. MI MAI
2 sg. SI SAI
3 sg. TI TAI
1 pl. MEN MEQA
2 pl. TE SQE
3 pl. NTI NTAI
Secondary Active Middle-Passive
1 sg. M(N) MHN
2 sg. S SO
3 sg. T(-) TO
1 pl. MEN MEQA
2 pl. TE SQE
3 pl. NT NTO
These, of course, have been modified by phonetic changes in the
historical forms in Attic-Ionic and later Koine Greek, but they
display recognizable pronominal elements, at least in the 1sg M
and 2 sg. S. It is also clear that the Primary Active endings
generally add an I to the pronominal core while the Secondary
Active endings keep that pronominal core intact. Corresponding
to the added I in the Active is the added AI in the primary
middle-passive, and the added O in the secondary middle-passive.
I cannot prove, but I think it likely that -Q- in the middle-passive
1 pl. and 2 pl. is the same Q (θ) that appears in the QH (θη)
middle-passive aorist and future forms.
That's just straightforward observation with minimal speculation.
It's clear that the pronominal 1 sg. M and 2 sg. S are reflected
in the personal endings of the verb.
The only other item I might add to the current discussion is
that those really interested in these questions might turn to
Suzanne Kemmer's _The Middle Voice_ (Typological Studies
in Language), Dec 1993. She discusses languages that use
reflexive forms to express middle-passive meaning as well
as languages that have a distinctive middle-passive inflection.
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
On Jan 10, 2011, at 1:04 AM, Vasile Stancu wrote:
> Hi, Mark,
>
> My question would be related to the formation of the middle
> 'originally', if I may put it like that: not necessarily by combining
> forms that pre-existed independently, but by adding to the verb
> something whose role was to be similar to that of a pronoun. In fact,
> pronouns are designators of 'self' in various positions; middle voice
> is forcing the verb to get closer to 'self'. There should (or, at
> least, could) be some natural/logical development of that.
>
> Vasile
>
> 2011/1/9 Mark Lightman <lightmanmark at yahoo.com>:
>> Vasile wrote
>>
>> <In fact, who can tell that the -μαι -MAI of the Greek middle is not in
>> fact a particle whose role is that of a pronoun? It sounds as if it
>> were an enclitic like the -μοι -MOI or the -με -ME in other instances.
>> (This question was meant to be rhetorical, but maybe there is somebody
>> who can tell it; in that case, please do tell it).>
>>
>> Hi, Vasile,
>>
>> Are you asking whether at some earlier stage of pre-historic Greek, MAI SAI
>> TAI were separate words that were detached from the verb?
>>
>>
>>
>> Mark L
>>
>>
>> FWSFOROS MARKOS
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Vasile Stancu <stancu.c.vasile at gmail.com>
>> To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>> Sent: Fri, January 7, 2011 9:15:34 AM
>> Subject: [B-Greek] Greek Middle vs. Reflexive in various other languages
>>
>> 'Various other languages' is, for me, for the moment, Romanian again,
>> and I hope you all bear a little bit more with me using it as a basis
>> for my explanations.
>>
>> In my language, the reflexive verbs are conjugated according to the
>> active pattern, but they are always accompanied by reflexive pronouns
>> in the accusative or dative. Eversince I encountered the Greek middle,
>> I had the tendency to associate the Greek -μαι -MAI, -σαι -SAI, -ται
>> -TAI, etc. terminations with the Romanian MĂ TE SE reflexive pronouns.
>> The only difference in my imagination was that the former ones are
>> placed at the end of the words while the latter usually before them. I
>> say 'usually' because it is not at all uncommon to place them after
>> the verb. For instance, I say:
>>
>> 'MĂ DUC' = ἔρχομαι ERXOMAI = I go
>>
>> Equally, I can say, just reshuffling the pronoun and verb (the 'U'
>> in-between has just an euphonic role):
>>
>> 'DUCU-MĂ = the same... (this arrangement sounds somewhat archaic, or
>> poetical)
>>
>> When I place the reflexive pronoun after the verb, I feel there is no
>> difference between the Greek middle and the Romanian reflexive.
>>
>> In fact, who can tell that the -μαι -MAI of the Greek middle is not in
>> fact a particle whose role is that of a pronoun? It sounds as if it
>> were an enclitic like the -μοι -MOI or the -με -ME in other instances.
>> (This question was meant to be rhetorical, but maybe there is somebody
>> who can tell it; in that case, please do tell it).
>>
>> Vasile Stancu
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