[B-Greek] TINAS in 2 Pet. 3:9

Carl Conrad cwconrad2 at mac.com
Thu Jan 27 11:34:39 EST 2011


On Jan 27, 2011, at 8:59 AM, Rod Rogers wrote:

> I was of the assumption that all pronouns by nature have antecedents (Machen #97; The Use of Pronouns).

With all due respect, this seems a questionable notion to me, and I don't think I'd cite Machen as an authority. But in this case we're talking about an indefinite pronoun, a kind of pronoun which by definition does not refer to a specific person or thing.

No doubt TIS or its plural TINES may be used rhetorically with the intention of avoiding overt mention of the person or thing referred to (e.g. "There are some in this group with whom I wouldn't care to associate," or "There are some things that I would never think of eating or drinking.")

Certainly the "scoffers" referred to in the opening paragraph of the letter are a fundamental concern of the author, but he writes to addressees whom he appears to be warning against the scoffers rather than as themselves scoffers.

The question raised was about TINAS in the MH BOULOMENOS clause rather than about the TINES of the hWS clause. I would think that the TINAS of the MH BOULOMENOS clause ought to be seen not with reference to some specific persons but rather in antithesis to PANTAS, so that the paired objects of the two infinitives are TINAS and PANTAS, "any (persons)" and "all (persons)" or "anybody" and "everybody."

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)

> Although it may not be proven grammatically I think there is a logical antecedent to TINES, εμπαικται EMPAIKTAI, scoffers who ask "Where is the promise of his coming?" Doesn't TINAS refer back to hHMAS/hUMAS, those who the Lord is longsuffering towards? The real fussing and fighting comes in when you try to find the antecedent of hHMAS/hUMAS.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "George F Somsel" <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>
> To: "Renwick Preston" <presto47 at gmail.com>; <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 7:05 PM
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] TIVAS in 2 Pet. 3:9
> 
>> οὐ βραδύνει κύριος τῆς ἐπαγγελίας, ὥς τινες βραδύτητα ἡγοῦνται, ἀλλὰ μακροθυμεῖ
>> εἰς ὑμᾶς, μὴ βουλόμενός τινας ἀπολέσθαι ἀλλὰ πάντας εἰς μετάνοιαν χωρῆσαι.
>> OU BRADUNEI KURIOS THS EPAGGELIAS, hWS TINES BRADUTHTA hGOUNTAI, ALLA MAKROQUMEI
>> EIS hUMAS, MH BOULOMENOS TINAS APOLESQAI ALLA PANTAS EIS METANOIAN XWRHSAI.
>> 
>> Neither instance of τὶς, τὶ TIS, TI (neither τινες TINES nor τινας TINAS) has
>> an antecedent. They are simply indefinite pronouns. In the first instance
>> τινες TINES is the subject of ἡτοῦνται hHGOUNTAI while in the second instance
>> τινας TINAS is the subject of the infinitive ἀπολέσθαι APOLESQAI.
>> 
>> george
>> gfsomsel
>> ________________________________
>> From: Renwick Preston <presto47 at gmail.com>
>> To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>> Sent: Wed, January 26, 2011 4:44:57 PM
>> Subject: [B-Greek] TIVAS in 2 Pet. 3:9
>> 
>> Is there an antecedent for the TIVAS in 2 Pet. 3:9?
>> 
>> Ren Preston







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