[B-Greek] PSALMOS TWi DAUID
Mark Lightman
lightmanmark at yahoo.com
Wed May 4 08:33:55 EDT 2011
Carl wrote
<It should be noted however (I expect Al Pietersma to chime in here) that
this is the LXX's woodenly-literal rendering of the Hebrew phrase
LDVD. The dative of possession certainly is a standard feature of Greek
grammar, BUT it is ordinarily used with a form of the verb EINAI, e.g.
ESTI MOI PAIS, "I have a child." The fact that the the superscription
for this psalm in the LXX reds TWi DAUID almost surely has nothing to do
with traditional Greek grammar.>
Hi, Carl,
I agree with this too, and again, what we might call the bare dative of possession
(without the ESTI) is rare in the GNT. But not so in Homer, where, for example,
θυμος μοι is more common than θυμος μου.
It's been argued that the LXX translators were influenced by Homeric vocabulary and
syntax, which is sort of like saying that Luther was influenced by Paul. The point is that
when analyzing the LXX, and even more so the GNT, looking at the Hebrew is helpful, but
you can also almost always explain things in terms of the traditional Greek.
Mark L
Φωσφορος
FWSFOROS MARKOS
--- On Wed, 5/4/11, Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com> wrote:
From: Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com>
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] PSALMOS TWi DAUID
To: "Mark Lightman" <lightmanmark at yahoo.com>
Cc: "B-Greek List mail to all" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>, "Barry H." <nebarry at verizon.net>
Date: Wednesday, May 4, 2011, 6:01 AM
On May 4, 2011, at 7:54 AM, Mark Lightman wrote:
>
>
> --- On Wed, 5/4/11, Barry H. <nebarry at verizon.net> wrote:
>
> From: Barry H. <nebarry at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] PSALMOS TWi DAUID
> To:
"B-Greek List mail to all" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Date: Wednesday, May 4, 2011, 4:46 AM
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter Streitenberger" <ps2866 at bingo-ev.de>
> To: <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 6:12 AM
> Subject: [B-Greek] PSALMOS TWi DAUID
>
>
>> Dear Friends,
>> what kind of Dative is used in the psalms by the LXX-Translators (z.B.
>> 3,1;4,1 etc.), when they interprete LeDavid as "Lamed auctoris"? Is this
>> Dative instrumental: written "by David"?
>> Thank you for any help !
>> Peter,
Germany
>
> Well, if a category is necessary, I would say a dative of possession, "of
> David."
>
> ML: I agree with Barry, and would only add that the dative of possession is very common from Homer on down, maybe just as common as the genitive of possession. I'm not sure the GNT grammars and textbooks prepare one for how common it is, because, I guess, the genitive of possession is much more common in the GNT.
It should be noted however (I expect Al Pietersma to chime in here) that this is the LXX's woodenly-literal rendering of the Hebrew phrase LDVD. The dative of possession certainly is a standard feature of Greek grammar, BUT it is ordinarily used with a form of the verb EINAI, e.g. ESTI MOI PAIS, "I have a child." The fact that the the superscription for this psalm in the LXX reds TWi DAUID almost surely has nothing to do with traditional Greek grammar.
Carl W. Conrad
Department
of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
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