[B-Greek] Back to Eph. 2:8

Carl Conrad cwconrad2 at mac.com
Mon May 16 11:41:09 EDT 2011


On May 16, 2011, at 10:52 AM, =) <p1234567891 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear all,
> 
> I thought it might be of note that there is another scripture in which it is
> not a person that "saves":
> [Luke 7:50]
> "ειπεν δε προς την γυναικα η πιστις σου σεσωκεν σε πορευου εις ειρηνην"
> "EIPEN DE PROS THN GUNAIKA H PISTIS SOU SESWKEN SE POREUOU EIS EIRHNHN"
> "but [he] said towards the woman, your faith has saved you, go into peace."

But that misses the point altogether. The dative with a passive voice is normally 
used of a noun or pronoun referring to a person. A thing or an abstraction can
readily enough be the subject of a transtive verb.

CWC

> On 15 May 2011 23:05, Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com> wrote:
> 
>> To which I had a mind to reply: Greek is a language in which it is possible
>> for
>> a writer to be very precise. But that doesn't mean it is used very
>> precisely by
>> all who speak or write Greek, and I have long felt that the author of
>> Ephesians
>> was not, I think, a very careful writer of Greek (I've made that comment, I
>> know, ad nauseam!). As pure speculation -- no more than that -- I suggest
>> that CARITI here might conceivably be a very loose equivalent of CARITI
>> TOU QEOU where CARITI is employed as a dative with a passive verb
>> (common to express agent of a passive verb with a perfect tense) as if it
>> were QEWi ESTE SEWiSMENOI DIA PISTEWS. Ordinarily such a dative
>> indicating the agent of a passive verb would be of a noun indicating a
>> person, not a thing and certainly not an abstraction. But that's nothing
>> more
>> than a guess. But, the old classic hymn says, "Amazing grace ... that saved
>> a wretch like me." Of course it wasn't "grace" that did the saving,
>> although
>> we tend to talk about "grace" as if it were "Grace" -- metonymously for
>> "God in his grace."
>> 
>> 
>> Carl W. Conrad
>> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)


Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)





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