[B-Greek] Philemon 6

=) p1234567891 at gmail.com
Tue May 31 05:35:58 EDT 2011


Sorry I forgot to include the list again..

On 31 May 2011 17:33, =) <p1234567891 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Iver,
>
>
> On 31 May 2011 15:51, Iver Larsen <iver_larsen at sil.org> wrote:
>
>> What about this: [Phlm 1:6] "OPWS H KOINWNIA THS PISTEWS SOU ENERGHS
>>> GENHTAI
>>> EN EPIGNWSEI PANTOS AGAQOU TOU EN HMIN EIS CRISTON" = "such that the
>>> communion (sharing) of your faith might come to be operative in
>>> recognition
>>> of every good [thing] in us for Christ"?
>>>
>>
>> I have a problem with the English word "sharing" here, because I do not
>> think that is what KOINWNIA means. What does it mean to "share" your faith?
>> I think it crept into the RSV from the KJV "communication of thy faith"
>> which came from the Vulgate. Tyndale worked from the Greek and had
>> "fellisshippe", Geneva Bible has "fellowship". Darby took it differently as
>> "thy participation in the faith". It would be too much to quote all the
>> different attempts at rendering this in English. I take KOINWNIA THS PISTEWS
>> as a unit meaning faith-fellowship and SOU modifies that unit.
>>
>> Actually I did not mean that "your faith" is the object of "sharing" but
> rather that the author is referring to "the communion/sharing which is of
> your faith", which is why I said I read it to mean "pertaining to your
> faith". In other words, "your faith" includes "the communion". And I know
> that "sharing of your faith" in English is usually taken to mean "sharing
> about your faith" and therefore I chose "communion" instead, which still has
> the correct meaning as one of its usages, according to the dictionaries. I
> originally thought "fellowship" would be suitable but in today's English it
> refers to the state of sharing something in common rather than the sharing
> itself. Anyway I was asking not about vocabulary but about whether there is
> the possibility of construing the phrase with "SOU" modifying "THS PISTEWS".
>
>
>>
>>  I believe the original conveys the sense of "the communion/sharing
>>> pertaining to your faith" instead of "your faith-communion/sharing".
>>> Otherwise the author could have written "SOU H KOINWNIA THS PISTEWS" to
>>> prevent the ambiguity. 1 Pet 1:9 also has "TO TELOS THS PISTEWS UMWN"
>>> which
>>> is clearly "the end of your faith (the end pertaining to your faith)".
>>>
>>
>> The ambiguity is not resolved that easily. To front the SOU would give a
>> different meaning altogether, and that is not what the author wanted to say.
>> 1 Pet 1:9 does not help, partly because the pronoun is plural, partly
>> because TELOS and KOINWNIA cannot be compared. The goal of faith is quite
>> different from the fellowship of faith.
>
>
> I mentioned 1 Pet 1:9 merely as an example of the grammatical construction
> that I am suggesting. But I also considered it to be another aspect of "your
> faith", in other words I read 1 Pet 1:9 to mean that "your faith" has an end
> (goal), and I read Phlm 1:6 to mean that "your faith" has a
> communion/fellowship/sharing. Is this a valid possibility? If not, why are
> there no other occurrences of "H KOINWNIA THS PISTEWS" in the new testament
> as a unit?
>
> By the way Heb 13:16 suggests that "communicate" in KJV meant "share", but
> I am just guessing and it is not really relevant haha..
>
>
> David Lim
>


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