[B-Greek] Philemon 6
=)
p1234567891 at gmail.com
Tue May 31 21:57:15 EDT 2011
Dear Iver,
The ambiguity is not resolved that easily. To front the SOU would give a
> different meaning altogether, and that is not what the author wanted to say.
>
Can I also ask you, why do you say that "SOU H KOINWNIA THS PISTEWS" would
give a very different meaning? I thought it would mean "your ( communion of
the faith )" (which would imply "your faith-communion") or "( your communion
) of the faith" (which would imply "your communion that is of the faith"),
both of which seem to be almost the same. Anyway how about "H THS PISTEWS
KOINWNIA SOU"? Would this unambiguously mean "your faith-communion"?
Thanks a lot,
David Lim
On 31 May 2011 17:35, =) <p1234567891 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Sorry I forgot to include the list again..
>
>
> On 31 May 2011 17:33, =) <p1234567891 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear Iver,
>>
>>
>> On 31 May 2011 15:51, Iver Larsen <iver_larsen at sil.org> wrote:
>>
>>> What about this: [Phlm 1:6] "OPWS H KOINWNIA THS PISTEWS SOU ENERGHS
>>>> GENHTAI
>>>> EN EPIGNWSEI PANTOS AGAQOU TOU EN HMIN EIS CRISTON" = "such that the
>>>> communion (sharing) of your faith might come to be operative in
>>>> recognition
>>>> of every good [thing] in us for Christ"?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I have a problem with the English word "sharing" here, because I do not
>>> think that is what KOINWNIA means. What does it mean to "share" your faith?
>>> I think it crept into the RSV from the KJV "communication of thy faith"
>>> which came from the Vulgate. Tyndale worked from the Greek and had
>>> "fellisshippe", Geneva Bible has "fellowship". Darby took it differently as
>>> "thy participation in the faith". It would be too much to quote all the
>>> different attempts at rendering this in English. I take KOINWNIA THS PISTEWS
>>> as a unit meaning faith-fellowship and SOU modifies that unit.
>>>
>>> Actually I did not mean that "your faith" is the object of "sharing" but
>> rather that the author is referring to "the communion/sharing which is of
>> your faith", which is why I said I read it to mean "pertaining to your
>> faith". In other words, "your faith" includes "the communion". And I know
>> that "sharing of your faith" in English is usually taken to mean "sharing
>> about your faith" and therefore I chose "communion" instead, which still has
>> the correct meaning as one of its usages, according to the dictionaries. I
>> originally thought "fellowship" would be suitable but in today's English it
>> refers to the state of sharing something in common rather than the sharing
>> itself. Anyway I was asking not about vocabulary but about whether there is
>> the possibility of construing the phrase with "SOU" modifying "THS PISTEWS".
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I believe the original conveys the sense of "the communion/sharing
>>>> pertaining to your faith" instead of "your faith-communion/sharing".
>>>> Otherwise the author could have written "SOU H KOINWNIA THS PISTEWS" to
>>>> prevent the ambiguity. 1 Pet 1:9 also has "TO TELOS THS PISTEWS UMWN"
>>>> which
>>>> is clearly "the end of your faith (the end pertaining to your faith)".
>>>>
>>>
>>> The ambiguity is not resolved that easily. To front the SOU would give a
>>> different meaning altogether, and that is not what the author wanted to say.
>>> 1 Pet 1:9 does not help, partly because the pronoun is plural, partly
>>> because TELOS and KOINWNIA cannot be compared. The goal of faith is quite
>>> different from the fellowship of faith.
>>
>>
>> I mentioned 1 Pet 1:9 merely as an example of the grammatical construction
>> that I am suggesting. But I also considered it to be another aspect of "your
>> faith", in other words I read 1 Pet 1:9 to mean that "your faith" has an end
>> (goal), and I read Phlm 1:6 to mean that "your faith" has a
>> communion/fellowship/sharing. Is this a valid possibility? If not, why are
>> there no other occurrences of "H KOINWNIA THS PISTEWS" in the new testament
>> as a unit?
>>
>> By the way Heb 13:16 suggests that "communicate" in KJV meant "share", but
>> I am just guessing and it is not really relevant haha..
>>
>>
>> David Lim
>>
>
>
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