NT on Papyrus: Report

From: Edgar M. Krentz (emkrentz@mcs.com)
Date: Fri Sep 01 1995 - 17:58:45 EDT

Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 08:46:56 -0400
From: "Paul Swarney" <pswarney@YorkU.CA>
X-Mailer: Z-Mail Lite (3.2.0 26may94)
To: emkrentz@mcs.com (Edgar M. Krentz)
Subject: Re: Forwarding Kongress report

I neglected to say that you may certainly forwrd my remarks! What is
B-greek's chief concern?

Paul Swarney

As you can see from the above, I am forwarding this report with Paul
Swarney's permission. It should be of interest to all who read the thread
sometime ago about Carsten Thiede's reading of some papyri.

>Reply-To: ioudaios-l@lehigh.edu
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>From: "Paul Swarney" <pswarney@YorkU.CA>
>To: Multiple recipients of list <ioudaios-l@lehigh.edu>
>Subject: Kongress
>X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas
>X-Comment: First Century Judaism Discussion Forum
>Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 08:45:25 EDT
>I have just returned to the desk after a week in Berlin at the 21.
>Internationaler Papyrologenkongress, and a few more days at the side of an
>excellent lake. I shall try to offer a commentary on some of the papers that
>might be of interest to the group later in the week. For now two
>observations relevant to some of the conversations on IOUDAIOS during the
>past two weeks are in order.
>1. Another query appeared last week about Carsten Thiede's dating of a
>Matthean codex which received a lot of publicity from its appearance in the
>Times on 24 December last. Thiede and a colleague, Georg Masuch, presented a
>workshop at the Congress on reading fragments of papyrus with laser enhanced
>microscopy, a kind of papyrological CAT scan, that produced three dimensional
>images. We donned the 3-d red and green glasses in front of us and saw what
>Thiede understood were the depressions caused by the scribal pen in the
>papyrus, depressions which remained even though the ink was long gone! It is
>a truly wonderful tool - you can now see most anything that you want to in a
>I had a discussion with Thiede about his article in ZPE which had been
>summarized in the Times. I expressed my admiration for the attention that
>the Times' story drew to papyrology and to Matthew (and Thiede too.) He
>stands very firmly behind his suggestion that the codex is first century.
>I also had a conversation with the Regius Professor of Greek in Oxford,
> whose enhanced position now requires that he do some Greek along with
>Papyrology. Parsons stands even more firmly behind his comment quoted in
>the Times last December.
>2. The discussion of Roman law in Judea also seems to have continued in the
> background of Ioudaios conversations. Hanna Cotton delivered an excellent,
>exuberant and thoroughly convincing paper on law and some transactions in the
>Babatha archive. She is convinced that they show many variations in
>strategies for succession for wives and daughters. These do not conform to
>halakhic norms presumed to have been wide spread among Ioudaioi in the second
>century. The warning here is against assuming such universals as "Roman" or
>"Jewish" or "Greek" law but rather to examine carefully what is going on
>situation by situation.
>Paul Swarney, Classical Studies, York University

Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 08:43:38 -0400
From: "Paul Swarney" <pswarney@YorkU.CA>
X-Mailer: Z-Mail Lite (3.2.0 26may94)
To: emkrentz@mcs.com (Edgar M. Krentz)
Subject: Re: Forwarding Kongress report

My remarks about Thiede's dating were rather superficial since all he did was
reiterate, very briefly, his argumanets in the ZPE article. And Peter
Parsons simply repeated his objection that Thiede's conjectures were
papyrological nonsense. Parsons affirmed Roberts' guesses about date and did
not think the matter was worth much more discussion. In sum from the view
point of an emminent papyrologist the debate is a dud. Sirgid Peterson on
IOUDAIOS has summarized the main points in a very satisfactory way.

By the way I think that the work being done by Ludwig Koenen's team on the
Petra Papyri, the archive found in a burned church at Petra, and Crawley's
note on yet another neighbourhood of Ioudaioi in Ptolemaic Egypt are more
interesting. I shall send you my observations once I catch my breath.

Paul Swarney

Edgar Krentz <emkrentz@mcs.com>
New Testament, Lutheran School of Theology at Chicago
Voice: 312-753-0752; FAX: 312-753-0782

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