From: Stephen C. Carlson (firstname.lastname@example.org)
Date: Wed Sep 25 1996 - 21:15:38 EDT
At 05:31 9/25/96 MST, Wes.Williams@twcable.com wrote:
>I was hoping that someone on the list could direct me to one or more
>grammatical references that show that PAS/PANTA can mean 'All - with the
>exception of the item we just talked about in the context...'. Here are
>some examples from NASB where the translation committee translated
>PAS/PANTA/etc as "all other." I agree with the translations, I just cannot
>find many grammars that talk about the insertion of 'other.' Or perhaps
>someone could elucidate the principles where a translator would insert
>"other" besides subjectivity.
You've asked a very good question. Looking at your three examples, I
would say that the first two present a different situation than the
>UBS4 Matthew 13:32 ho mikroteron men estin PANTWN twn spermatwn
>NASB Matthew 13:32 and this is smaller than all OTHER seeds,
>UBS4 Luke 13:2 Dokeite hoti hoi Galilaioi houtoi hamartwloi para PANTAS
>tous Galilaious egenonto hoti tauta peponqasin;
>NASB Luke 13:2 "Do you suppose that these Galileans were greater sinners
>than all OTHER Galileans because they suffered this fate?
In Mt13:32 we have a comparative, hO MIKROTERON, "the smaller," and
in Lk13:2 hAMARTWLOI PARA is a positive + PARA which functions as a
comparative, "more of a sinner." [See BDF #245(3)]. In the Koine,
the superlative has almost disappeared in favor of the use of the
comparative with a unit of plurality [#60], which is served by the
use of PAS here. So, these constructions really function as a
superlative: "the smallest of all the seeds"; "these Galileans were
the worst sinners of all Galileans." It's not really that different
from the way Romance languages work.
I suppose that if the translator wants to maintain the comparative
form, English grammar requires the use of "other" with groups, as
it still carefully maintains the distinction between the comparative
and the superlative. It is ungrammatical to say *"smaller than all
seeds"; it must be either "smallest of all seeds" or "smaller than
all other seeds." This then explains the translation.
>UBS4 1 Corinthians 6:18 feugete thn porneian. PAN hamarthma ho ean
>poihsh anqrwpos ektos tou swmatos estin ho de porneuwn eis to idion swma
>NASB 1 Corinthians 6:18 Flee immorality. Every OTHER sin that a man
>commits is outside the body, but the immoral man sins against his own
I suspect that "other" is employed here to clarify the force of the
adversative DE, translated by "but." I'm not so sure, however, that
this carries the sense of the Greek. To me this states that all sins
are outside the body and on top of that this particular is also inside
the body. In other words, I would treat the DE as if there was a MEN
in the first clause. Comments?
Also, the hO EAN + aor. subjunctive almost suggests some kind of a
conditional, does it not? "If a person has committed any sin, it is
outside the body, but a fornicator also sins against his own body."
-- Stephen C. Carlson : Poetry speaks of aspirations, email@example.com : and songs chant the words. http://www.mindspring.com/~scarlson/ : -- Shujing 2.35
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Sat Apr 20 2002 - 15:37:52 EDT