Re: Isaiah 9:1 (LXX)

From: Mr. Timothy T. Dickens (
Date: Sun Mar 30 1997 - 20:49:42 EST

At 06:44 PM 3/30/97 -0500, Edward Hobbs wrote:
>Dear Timothy, and colleagues of B-Greek:
> Logging in on this Easter evening after 6, I find a question about
>LXX which Carl has not already answered! So I'll tackle it.
>You asked:
> I have a question translating Isaiah 9:1-2. The translations of
>these two verses I came up with is:
> The people who are walking in darkness, Look! a great light! Those
>dwelling in the region (xwra) and in the shadow of death, a light will shine
>up them. Most (to pleiston) of the people, who were lead (kathgages) into
>your happiness, they will be made glad before you as being made glad with
>milk (amhtw?), (kai on tropon) taking up weapons (skula).
> My first question is how would anyone translate ("kai on tropon" in
>this sentence?
> Is the word 'amhtw' in this sentence mean 'with milk'? I could not
>find anything better in LSJ.
> Finally is 'kathgages' a 2nd, aorist participle from katagw? It
>seems so. any replies will be appreciated.

>Timothy T. Dickens

>First off, the opening NPs are Vocatives, which look just like nominatives.
>So you have:

>"You people walking in darkness: Behold a great light!
>You who are dwelling in the region of the shadow of death, a light will
>shine upon you!"

TTD: Ed, this form is possible, i.e., nominative, masc. pl, and vocatives
are identical, but why make them vocative in this context? Are you
suggesting this from the previous lines, Isa. 8:23b onwards?

> [CORAi and SKIAi are probably appositive to each other.
> which translates better as "region OF THE shadow".]

>"The greater part of the people which you brought down in your joy, even
>they shall be joyful before you, as those who rejoice in the harvest, and as
>those dividing the spoils."
>--hON TROPON means "as"; it is in LSJM.

TTD: I noticed this later.

>--AMHTOS is "harvest"; see LSJM.

TTD: I noticed that amhtos can ALSO mean milk. Personally, I like your
translation better, but why choose harvest over milk? Help me to better to
decide which form to use.

>--KATHGAGES is plain garden variety 2s, 1 aorist, of KATAGW.

TTD: ED, I do not know if you are familiar with a reference called _Verbi
Greci_, but it lists a similiar form (KATHGAGON) as 2nd aorist of katagw.
BAG also lists this verb as 2nd. Aorist. The first aorist, rarely used acc.
to LSJ, is kathza (z=ksi). Thus, it looks like it is 2nd. aorist.
>The biggest difficulty is that the LXX translator(s) didn't really grasp
>the Hebrew, and produced a kind of drivel.
>Edward Hobbs
TTD: Thanks Ed, I will be awaiting your swift reply. Shall I come back to
this after the X-files?

Peace and Love,
Timothy T. Dickens
Smyrna, GA Home School

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                The Gospel of Thomas, saying #2, Nag Hammadi Library

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