From: Glen Riddle (email@example.com)
Date: Tue Sep 23 1997 - 11:58:12 EDT
Carl W. Conrad wrote:
> At 5:45 AM -0500 9/23/97, Jonathan Robie wrote:
> >At 08:02 AM 9/22/97 -0800, Paul Zellmer wrote:
> >>Since the discussion on 1 John continues, let me ask the list for their
> >>feelings who is being referred to by EKEINOS in 1 John 2:6. Some
> >>English translations very clearly take this as referring to Jesus,
> >>possibly because the EN AUTW holds the nearest substantive (?). Yet I
> >>can see a strong case for this referring back to the hOS in verse 5.
> >>What do you all think, and why?
> >Hi, Paul!
> >This gives me the opportunity to share a potentially shaky theory and see
> >what others think of it ;->
> >In reading 1 John, I have the impression that the author generally uses
> >EKEINOS to refer to Jesus, even in cases where there is no clear antecedent.
> >Here are all the verses where EKEINOS is used in 1 John: 2:6, 3:3, 3:5, 3:7,
> >3:16, 4:17. Take a look especially at 3:5, where there is no clear reference
> >to Jesus, but it must refer to Jesus because Jesus is the one who "appeared
> >to take away sins". There are also similar uses of EKEINOS in the gospel of
> >This is just my impression, and it may be a little shaky because this isn't
> >the way EKEINOS works in textbook Greek, but to me, it seems to be the way
> >that EKEINOS works in John's Greek. Incidentally, I haven't run into this in
> >the Revelation yet, but I have just finished the 8th chapter.
> No, it's not distinctly Johannine. LSJ s.v. EKEINOS "2. to denote
> well-known persons, etc."
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics/Washington University
> One Brookings Drive/St. Louis, MO, USA 63130/(314) 935-4018
> Home: 7222 Colgate Ave./St. Louis, MO 63130/(314) 726-5649
> firstname.lastname@example.org OR email@example.com
> WWW: http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/
By Jove, what an astounding discovery! All of the discussions on I John
have been well worth it! Conrad has discovered the "Divine
demonstrative". Really, Conrad, you must consider doing a journal
article on this. If fact, if you depict it visually on canvas, you'd be
a real Con Artist.
The Divine Demonstrative, now that it has been clearly established in
Johannine literature (though we still await results from the Apocalypse)
and has been discovered hiding secularly in L&S, gives us new fodder for
our canons in the theo wars. I will not sleep until we get a definitive
answer on this: is ekeinos here (clearly divine demonstrative) (1)
qualitative, (2) indefinite, (3) indefinitely qualitative, (4) definite,
(5) definitely qualitative, (6) qualitatively indefinite, (7)
qualitatively definite, (8) definitely indefinite, or (9) indefinitely
My greatest joy in being on b-greek has been reading the incredible info
from CWC. Makes me want to move to St. Louis to study under him. But, I
never dreamed how good it could get. Now, all you folks out there in the
I John diatribe please take this to heart. The presents, aorist,
infinitives, and sin of I John needs to be put on hold. Let's give this
divine demonstrative our fullest attention.
blessings to all and many thanks for the great contributions made by
many of you to our common love of Greek grammar,
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