From: Peter Phillips (email@example.com)
Date: Mon Feb 02 1998 - 15:47:35 EST
Thanks for the reference to Caselli, I will try to get hold of his article
- where can I get a copy of Trinity Journal 18 NS??? However, you will
note that Barrett does not identify Logos and Torah at all. Some of the
things that John says about Logos were already predicated to Torah but
Torah was created and not co-creator or the reason for creation. The idea
that Torah would become enfleshed would be intolerable to Jewish ears.
John pulls the concepts of Logos from all over the place (Miller suggests
13 sources for the imagery at least), adds a lot more of his own
theological reflection about this Logos' role in and through Creation (as
other early Christologists were doing like in Col 1:15ff and Phil 2:6ff)
and then moulds all of this into one enfleshed being - the historical
But then we move rapidly outside the remit of B-Greek and anyway we did all
this a few months ago - see the archives, please!!!
From: Bruce Tetley [SMTP:firstname.lastname@example.org]
Sent: 01 February 1998 20:28
Subject: RE: John 1:1
> Peter Phillips wrote:
> >I wonder whether we can rescue this from theology and return to Greek.
> > There is little evidence whatsoever that the actual Greek word LOGOS
> >ever used prior to the Johannine material to refer to a person. ...
Carl Conrad wrote,
> This may be so, but some would argue that Hellenistic Jewish notions of
> HOKKMA/SOFIA which appears in allegorical personalization in Proverbs 8
> in the Wisdom of Solomon are antecedents of the LOGOS conception in both
> John's prologue and Philo--and if this is so, that might incline the
> readers of the Johannine prologue to understand the prologue in a
> personalized manner.
In addition to Carl,
Caselli, In the article JESUS AS ESCHATALOGICAL TORAH
Trinity Journal 18 NS (1997)
Jesus Christ for John is "grace and truth" of a higher order. The
attributes of Torah are the attributes of the Johannine Logos.
quoting Barret, "the description of the LOGOS and his relation
to God in the prologue corresponds exactly to much that is said by
the Rabbis about the Torah."
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